Everything is fucked

all the ARSE dribble
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ysu
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Everything is fucked

Post by ysu »

Surprise, no sig. Now there is. Or is there?
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DarrenM
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by DarrenM »

It started as a series of tubes and is turning into a series of echo chambers.
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Muppet
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Muppet »

Seems like an article from Captain fucking obvious to me. Marketing and advertising has been using our feelings to sell us shit since advertising was invented. It's not the internet's fault, it's just a reflection on ourselves. It's like blaming the hammer for caving in someone's skull, not the person who wields the hammer.

My interpretation is the author is fucked!
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Righteous
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Righteous »

I don't think it was just about advertising.

I agree with the author's points about the internet.

This sort of shit for example.
Having an errant racist thought? Well, there’s a whole forum of racists two clicks away with a lot of convincing-sounding arguments as to why you shouldn’t be so ashamed to have racist leanings.
I don't think it's ever been this easy to track down like minded people and think that everything you're doing/saying is correct or valid. I don't think it's a good thing.
ysu
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by ysu »

I think it's interesting and thought-inspiring (hence I posed). Not at all obvious - altho it's putting together the seemingly obvious. But I've never put it together like this.

The thought that all the information isn't helping most people at all, instead it creates these 'echo chambers' as Darren put it, it's in front of us, yes, and I've seen this in work. Still. I've never thought about it too much.
Yes, it's extremely hard to find the correct information, sometimes. But if you want to, you will find "proof" for anything. Now this definitely wasn't like this before the internet.
Getting like-minded minority idiots together was a near-impossibility.

But I also found the very last bit interesting...we feel it's all shit, and doomsday is looming (I certainly do, sometimes) yet we live the age of plenty & peace!
But the sentiment is there; the amount of shocking/bad news is staggering. The media used to do this to a certain extent (i.e. more "exiting news" of people shooting/dying/getting in accidents, instead of reporting on eg scientific achievements). I used to not watch these news too often. Change of channel. Change of paper. But now on the 'net it's all there, everywhere. Every single bit of bad shit in the world usually on the front page of wherever you go.
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wabbit
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by wabbit »

I'm not sure anyone should lay blame on computing or the internet for that matter. Computers are simply only good at doing boring and repetitive tasks and we've built generally speaking everything off that basic idea.

I think it's a shame the author didn't mention "herd mentality" and capitalism too. There's most likely a lot more, I just can't remember them off the top of my head right now.
ysu
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by ysu »

I don't feel it blames the internet, rather points to it that without this incredible network of instant information around the globe, information would stay local and thus things would be much different.

It's a tool, and we use it as we use it; but we use it kinda wrong (most of us). Like with the nuclear fusion. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon, too. Although I won't hold my breath. Even basic things like the email protocol seems to be pretty much set in stone now.
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wabbit
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by wabbit »

I re read the article, this time around I find myself disagreeing with him a little more than before. Parts of what he talks about could be the strong and constant use of fear from media outlets and companies in general, pressurising consumers to make rash, emotional and poorly formed decisions. Years ago I read an fascinating article about the US medias use of fear, if I ever find it I'll link it.

That "fancy way" of explaining disruption? Huh that's not it, that's trial and error. Then he blends the next sentence briefly talking about incumbents, finishing with "efficient and beneficial systems". Just didn't read well to me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he's writing, maybe I'm tired. I just find myself stepping away from his views the more I re read them.

Which brings me to information. Huh? Bloody more please. I'll admit I have a jaded view of politicians and companies for that matter. Internet yes please, more information please. I want to acquire factual information to make more informed decisions. I swear people in power would love nothing more if the general populous had less information, assisting them in doing less good things for their people (e.g.: their too fucking stupid to know better). Ysu if we didn't have access to factual data from outside Aus, would we have accurately known FTTN and MTM NBN was a shitty idea? :D

What does peak my interest though is peoples use of social media outlets and devices for that matter. I notice people checking their phones, finding no notifications. I notice people scrolling through Facebook, endless scrolling. Repeating the process moments later... still nothing of worthiness. That emotional draw Facebook and the likes have over some people "you device, relieve me from boredom. Entertain me now!".
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durbster
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by durbster »

Information is great but we haven't been taught the skills to identify what's true. And it is a skill, it's not something we're inherently born with. If anything, we're terrible at critical thinking because human beings are storytellers at heart, and we romanticise everything. That's why a film about an actual event has to be dramatised for us to want to watch it. No matter how spectacular the event, without a narrative structure we aren't interested.

Also, every generation before now has relied on trained professionals to pick out the truth from the bullshit, and that's something we clearly didn't value as we all think we can do it brilliantly.

I try and follow a range of views on social media, including those I disagree with. I think it helps a bit and stops me getting too deep into the echo chamber.

Or does it :D
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Muppet »

This is the same kind of article or conversation you would have found around the time of any new great disruptive invention to society, that's why I called it obvious. When the printing press was invented, there was great upheaval in society, many called it evil, books were banned etc. Did that view make the printing press a bad invention, no the printing press just was, it has no emotion, no feelings, it just does a job and how we, the humans, used it is what matters.

The internet is the same, it's not good or bad, it just is. It's a hammer, it's a tool, it does a job, in this case allows greater access to information than ever before. It's how it can be used that can be a problem. If you look into it, you'll find we are only doing the same thing, having the same conversations that we had around all great big changes.

I fundamentally disagree with the article, because it's quite simple, dumb fucks have always been drawn together to other dumb fucks. There were white supremacists, religious extremists, Nazi's and all manner of other wankers that found each other before the internet.

It's standard human nature to formulate an opinion and then go seeking others who have the same opinion. This forum itself is an example of that. Therefore the internet just reflects us, because that is how we choose to use it!

I forget sometimes how much I like ranting, it's fun lol
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by wabbit »

Case closed. Seriously 100% agree and please keep ranting.
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Righteous
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Righteous »

Muppet wrote: I fundamentally disagree with the article, because it's quite simple, dumb fucks have always been drawn together to other dumb fucks. There were white supremacists, religious extremists, Nazi's and all manner of other wankers that found each other before the internet.
I don't think anyone is claiming that people with similar leanings weren't able to find each other in the past. I don't see how you could argue that it's not easier now?

Like you said, it's another disruptive technology that we've adapted to.

I feel like we're not far away from the "Guns don't kill people" argument.

Some of it is obvious and it's certainly not anything new, but I don't see that the article is wrong about advertising/content and the way you can get such a skewed perspective on things.

Unless you go hunting for different perspectives, it can be very easy to live in your bubble and assume that everyone is on the same page as you.

Thankfully we have ARSE where we can rant and rave and no one cares what we say.
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Cursed
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Cursed »

It boils down to a much more open access to information. People's opinions are just information. 30 years ago you had to go to a fringe bookshop or pick up a fringe magazine from the newsagent if you wanted to reinforce a crystal-healing conspiracy theory belief. On the other hand, you had to go to large central libraries or directly to equipment manufacturers if you wanted to know how stuff works.

I'll take easier access to the latter if easier access to the former is the price. The alternatives don't bear up to scrutiny. Censorship is a slippery slope.
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Muppet
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Muppet »

You're not allowed to disagree with me, we're meant to be all like minded individuals here with the same group think, thus we should always be in furious agreements.

Yes I'm being ironic and just proving that not everything is fucked at all, lots of things are better, but morons, like me, will always be morons and attracted to other morons. Easier to find more morons, yes.

And guns don't kill people, stupid wankers who get access to guns who can modify them easily to do lots of damage kill people. It's simple, stop giving wankers guns :)
Sarsippius
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Sarsippius »

I don't have time to add much at the moment but further to what Darren said all this 'curation' that goes on just silos people into echo chambers. All these social media and other platforms do it, it makes sense, show me stuff that appeals to me but very quickly it ends up that you are only ever shown things and ideas that already conform with your pov and you almost never see anything that will contradict your ideas.
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Dr. Pain
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Re: Everything is fucked

Post by Dr. Pain »

Meh. Read into this what you want.

I think the internet is a powerful tool that we don't know what to do with yet. It's like most technologies when they first appear. One day very soon we will start to use it in ways we can't imagine.

If anything the article points out that everything is fucked because of how we live and our first world problems and the money we chase.
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