New PC advice.

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norbs
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New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:33 am

Hey ARSEs. A local guy that does video editing is buying a new PC and asked me about this set up from Mwave.

Forget the video card, he is going to buy my 1070 I hope. He also plays games and I am hoping to get him into FNF. I also asked him if 32G would be better but he says he is only using 8G now on his i5 system.

Mwave.com.au Custom Build PC
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H115i 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler - [1 x $179.0000]
Premium Custom PC services: Advanced Transportation Packing Solution - [1 x $19.9900]
Operating System: Windows 10 Professional 64-bit OEM DVD - [1 x $198.9900]
Limited time offer - Pick your freebie: Huntkey 4 Outlet Surge Protected PowerBoard with Dual 5V 2.1A USB Ports - [1 x $0.0000]
Graphics Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 G1 Gaming 2GB Video Card - [1 x $199.0000]
PC Case: NZXT Source S340 Mid-Tower Case - White - [1 x $109.0000]
CPU: Intel Core i7 7740X Quad Core LGA 2066 4.30 GHz Unlocked Processor - [1 x $489.0000]
Motherboard: ASUS PRIME X299-A LGA 2066 ATX Motherboard - [1 x $469.0000]
Memory: Corsair Vengeance White LED 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR4 3200MHz Memory - [1 x $234.9900]
Primary Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" SATA III SSD MZ-75E500 - [1 x $238.9900]
Secondary Storage: Seagate ST2000DM006 2TB BarraCuda 3.5" 7200RPM SATA3 Desktop Hard Drive - [1 x $97.9900]
Power Supply: Corsair RM850i 850W 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply - [1 x $209.0000]
Assembling Fee: $149.99
Total: $2514.94
Generated by Mwave.com.au 31/07/2017 10:53:00 AM

Any issues there?
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby ysu » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:21 pm

I've bought this one a little while back, I can very much recommend the case it's extremely nice to work with & quiet, the mobo has an auto-tuning option, so the cpu is upped by 15% with one click (that's 600 MHz extra!) - check if the selected one has this feature. Otherwise it's a bit more fiddly.

The ram I would not downsize; it's cheap and you cannot have too much of it. Funnily, you do not really need 3200 ram, I've bought it too, but I'm yet to find out how can I actually use all that speed, hehe. A 2800 is just as good, unless you go and tweak some extras in the bios, iirc (correction maybe needed here).

The mobo is a bit of a personal preference item; you can get higher-end ones with great on-board sound (but nothing beats a good DAC) and lots of extra gizmos, so...

This setup is very quiet, and pretty powerful for my needs (gaming & coding) where my needs include databases. So lots of memory & good drive speeds were in focus.

I'm not sure what do you need the most for video editing; I'd assume CPU, so maybe it's worth going up to a 7700. (I've not gone that way to keep my system drive intact with win7)

And the nvme drive is crazy fast :)



Case:
Corsair Carbide 600Q

Mobo
ASUS Maximus9 Hero

CPU
6700k

Cooler
NZXT Kraken X62

RAM
32GB DDR4 3200 (2x16)

Drive
Samsung 960 Evo (nvme)

GFX
ZOTAC GTX 1080 TI AMP Extreme (ZT-P10810C-10P)

PSU
Seasonic Prime 850W Titanium
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:42 pm

Thanks YSU.

Considering an upgrade myself now that I have seen the price. Could probably sell my current system for a reasonable amount too.

That system I listed above uses the same case as what I have now and it is great.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby hylas » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:36 pm

I think the price could be cut down a bit by just making a couple of changes. Not sure exactly what video editing stuff requires but a standard i7 7700 would probably do just fine. I wouldn't go the 7700k either, just the 7700 or even drop down to the i5 7600 if possible, which also means you can drop the RAM down to 2133 is the stock speed I think, I could be wrong I can't remember exactly (since I bothered to login to pccasegear and confirmed my order, looks like I bought the 2133 which must be the stock speed unless I fucked up). The non-k versions of the intel CPU's come with a stock cooler as well, so you can save a bit more there. Also, if you go without the k edition, you can get a cheaper board. The Gigabyte H270 is a good cheaper option if you won't be overclocking.
By the way, that primary storage isn't NVMe, it's just a SSD. Having the M.2 drive in my racing PC makes it insane. I literally don't even get to see the Windows startup screen, it boots and shows the bios post screen and then goes straight to the login screen waiting for me to login.


Here's what I bought for my racing PC recently;

1 Intel Core i5 7600 $309.00 $309.00
1 Gigabyte H270-HD3 Motherboard $165.00 $165.00
1 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2A2133C13 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 Black $179.00 $179.00
1 Corsair AX860 Platinum Power Supply $279.00 $279.00
1 Gigabyte AORUS GeForce GTX 1080 Xtreme Edition 8GB $849.00 $849.00
1 Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB SSD $329.00 $329.00
1 Corsair Carbide Quiet 400Q Compact Mid-Tower Case $129.00 $129.00

Sub-Total: $2239.00
Startrack Express: $127.00
GST Included: $215.09
Total: $2366.00

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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:58 pm

One thing that has been doing my head in for a while. Windows licences. I have a shit ton of PCs here that run Windows of some sort (9 that I can think of, dont ask). Is Technet still a viable solution? I seem to recall it was good if you bought more than a couple of copies of Windows a year.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:01 pm

hylas wrote:I think the price could be cut down a bit by just making a couple of changes. Not sure exactly what video editing stuff requires but a standard i7 7700 would probably do just fine. I wouldn't go the 7700k either, just the 7700 or even drop down to the i5 7600 if possible, which also means you can drop the RAM down to 2133 is the stock speed I think, I could be wrong I can't remember exactly (since I bothered to login to pccasegear and confirmed my order, looks like I bought the 2133 which must be the stock speed unless I fucked up). The non-k versions of the intel CPU's come with a stock cooler as well, so you can save a bit more there. Also, if you go without the k edition, you can get a cheaper board. The Gigabyte H270 is a good cheaper option if you won't be overclocking.
By the way, that primary storage isn't NVMe, it's just a SSD. Having the M.2 drive in my racing PC makes it insane. I literally don't even get to see the Windows startup screen, it boots and shows the bios post screen and then goes straight to the login screen waiting for me to login.


Here's what I bought for my racing PC recently;

1 Intel Core i5 7600 $309.00 $309.00
1 Gigabyte H270-HD3 Motherboard $165.00 $165.00
1 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2A2133C13 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 Black $179.00 $179.00
1 Corsair AX860 Platinum Power Supply $279.00 $279.00
1 Gigabyte AORUS GeForce GTX 1080 Xtreme Edition 8GB $849.00 $849.00
1 Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB SSD $329.00 $329.00
1 Corsair Carbide Quiet 400Q Compact Mid-Tower Case $129.00 $129.00

Sub-Total: $2239.00
Startrack Express: $127.00
GST Included: $215.09
Total: $2366.00



That looks like it will do me nicely. :)

Although, will that i5 be a step up from the 4690K I have now? Is the i7 still no use for games?
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby richo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:18 pm

Have you thought of a Ryzen based system?
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby ysu » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pm

For a lot of games cpu frequency is still king as far as i know.

But you really need to look at specific benchmarks to tell what's what :)
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:39 pm

richo wrote:Have you thought of a Ryzen based system?



TBH I havent done a lot of thinking, and the other guy has just phoned to tell me he has bought the system above. Apparently he won $6 on the pokies on the weekend LOL.

I have a 1080Ti card coming, and thought I might do an upgrade when I saw the prices. I expect the current i5 4690K will be the bottle neck with that video card, but I am happy to be told otherwise.

Woodsy mentioned the Ryzen the other day, but I know fuck all about them.

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Re: New PC advice.

Postby hylas » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:41 pm

It's just that the i5's have always been good enough. You just never got a big enough increase with having an i7 to make it worth spending the extra cash when regarding gaming.

I'm sure it would be an upgrade, I'm not exactly sure but I'm guessing that 4690k is 3 generations old now. Clock speeds haven't changed much for a long time, but new tech is going into each generation so surely there would be some benefit in it.

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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:41 pm

ysu wrote:For a lot of games cpu frequency is still king as far as i know.

But you really need to look at specific benchmarks to tell what's what :)



Well I play mainly AC and Pcars 2. AMS is still DX9, so the PC runs it at 200FPS and the CPU and GPU are both around 50% capacity. :)

Pcars 2 smashes the 4690K and 1070 on triples. Proper smashes it. 100% on CPU and GPU. :eek:
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:42 pm

hylas wrote:It's just that the i5's have always been good enough. You just never got a big enough increase with having an i7 to make it worth spending the extra cash when regarding gaming.

I'm sure it would be an upgrade, I'm not exactly sure but I'm guessing that 4690k is 3 generations old now. Clock speeds haven't changed much for a long time, but new tech is going into each generation so surely there would be some benefit in it.



Yep, pretty sure that is what Rens said when I got my current system.

I think the smart thing to do would be to see how the 1080Ti goes in the current system,.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:44 pm

ysu wrote:For a lot of games cpu frequency is still king as far as i know.

But you really need to look at specific benchmarks to tell what's what :)



So....

https://www.mwave.com.au/product/intel- ... or-ac05475

:)
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby ysu » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:22 pm

Norbs I really don't want to mislead you. I simply don't know enough nowadays about specific CPU's gaming performance - or indeed how they go with a certain gfx card.

My *guess* is that the i5 is good enough, but you then need to prolly change the mobo & maybe rams (not sure), and it's a whole new kettle of fish.

I'd certainly update the current computer (if it's already 100% in a game) since it probably won't cut it. But as to i5 or i7? I dunno. I just went "max" this time around to save a lot of research time.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby Sarsippius » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:04 pm

I wouldn't go for that CPU, the motherboards are much more expensive than the regular i5's and i7's for little to no benefit for gaming.

I recently upgraded from a 4690k I had overclocked to 4.5GHz to a 7600k which I have overclocked to 5GHz, it was an expensive upgrade which I only did because my brother in-law needed a new pc so I sold him the old cpu, mobo and ram. The new cpu did make a noticeable difference in VR in iRacing which is very cpu dependent. I don't know anything about Pcars 2 performance so can't comment there.

For gaming an i5 is all you need, an i7 gives no benefit. The only reason I would get an i7 over an i5 is if you don't plan to overclock because you will have higher stock clock speeds. If you plan to overclock then they will each clock to roughly the same point. Maybe Pcars 2 is heavily multi-threaded in which case an i7 may help so that might be worth looking in to.

I don't know if you've overclocked your 4690k Norbs but that might be worth a try to get some extra performance.

Ryzen is not quite there yet for gaming, it's not a bad choice at all but it clocks lower so loses out a little that way and if you overclock you will only get 4GHz max vs close to 5GHz for a 7700k or 7600k. It's usually cheaper so is good bang for your buck and is better in multi-threaded tasks but like I say loses out if you want the best performance.

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Re: New PC advice.

Postby Pinger$ » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:06 pm

Don't pay the socket 2066 tax. Just go with a 7700 or 7700K and save the money on the motherboard. Perf wise there really isn't any difference... unless you're going to upgrade the CPU later to hex+ core i9. Even then... just sell the socket 1151 mobo and cpu together to upgrade.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:22 am

ysu wrote:Norbs I really don't want to mislead you. I simply don't know enough nowadays about specific CPU's gaming performance - or indeed how they go with a certain gfx card.

My *guess* is that the i5 is good enough, but you then need to prolly change the mobo & maybe rams (not sure), and it's a whole new kettle of fish.

I'd certainly update the current computer (if it's already 100% in a game) since it probably won't cut it. But as to i5 or i7? I dunno. I just went "max" this time around to save a lot of research time.



No worries. It is all helpful. :yes:
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:25 am

Sarsippius wrote:I wouldn't go for that CPU, the motherboards are much more expensive than the regular i5's and i7's for little to no benefit for gaming.

I recently upgraded from a 4690k I had overclocked to 4.5GHz to a 7600k which I have overclocked to 5GHz, it was an expensive upgrade which I only did because my brother in-law needed a new pc so I sold him the old cpu, mobo and ram. The new cpu did make a noticeable difference in VR in iRacing which is very cpu dependent. I don't know anything about Pcars 2 performance so can't comment there.

For gaming an i5 is all you need, an i7 gives no benefit. The only reason I would get an i7 over an i5 is if you don't plan to overclock because you will have higher stock clock speeds. If you plan to overclock then they will each clock to roughly the same point. Maybe Pcars 2 is heavily multi-threaded in which case an i7 may help so that might be worth looking in to.

I don't know if you've overclocked your 4690k Norbs but that might be worth a try to get some extra performance.

Ryzen is not quite there yet for gaming, it's not a bad choice at all but it clocks lower so loses out a little that way and if you overclock you will only get 4GHz max vs close to 5GHz for a 7700k or 7600k. It's usually cheaper so is good bang for your buck and is better in multi-threaded tasks but like I say loses out if you want the best performance.



Excellent. Thanks Sarsi. I have tried to over clock the 4690K but got frustrated with the amount of dicking around needed.

Because everything I read about Pcars 2 says it runs better on an i7, I will get the i7. Probably the 7700k which runs at 4.2ghz and if Pcars2 struggles, I might try and overclock it. I will get water cooling just in case.

Thanks for all the advice, I reckon my mind is made up. Will look at pricing now and see if I can sell the i5 4690k as a complete system.
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby Sarsippius » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:03 pm

I notice their recommended spec is the i7 7600k so yeah maybe this game does need the extra threads. It's not a bad idea to go water cooling for the 7700k as they can run a bit hot once overclocked as they use basic thermal compound under the heat spreader, my 7600k is air cooled but I delidded it to cut the temps down. If Ryzen clocked better it probably would be a good choice for this game as you could have 6 or 8 actual cores vs 4 +4 with hyper threading.

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Re: New PC advice.

Postby ysu » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:57 pm

Just run into this article on ryzen vs 7700 in gaming (inc some 4k res) - in case anyone is interested.
Sadly they don't do racing sims.
http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3009- ... 4hz-gaming\
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Re: New PC advice.

Postby norbs » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Thanks for all the help guys.

Went from around 60FPS to 110FPS in Pcars2. Silky smooth to.

Happy.

Edit : Not sure how relevant the AC benchmarks are after many updates, but.

27/8/16.
AC VERSION: 1.8 (x64)
POINTS: 14059
FPS: AVG=95 MIN=5 MAX=124 VARIANCE=5 CPU=71%

LOADING TIME: 15s
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (5760x1080)
OS-Version: 6.2.9200 () 0x100-0x1
CPU CORES: 4
FULLSCREEN: ON
AA:4X AF:16X SHDW:512 BLUR:0
WORLD DETAIL: 5 SMOKE:5
PP: QLT:4 HDR:1 FXAA:1 GLR:5 DOF:2 RAYS:1 HEAT:0



10/8/17
AC VERSION: 1.14.4 (x64)
POINTS: 18243
FPS: AVG=124 MIN=7 MAX=184 VARIANCE=11 CPU=87%

LOADING TIME: 13s
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (5760x1080)
OS-Version: 6.2.9200 () 0x300-0x1
CPU CORES: 8
FULLSCREEN: ON
AA:4X AF:16X SHDW:512 BLUR:0
WORLD DETAIL: 5 SMOKE:5
PP: QLT:4 HDR:1 FXAA:1 GLR:5 DOF:2 RAYS:1 HEAT:0
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