Audio advice

[Johnny X]

Ey up ARSES,

I've been pondering upgrading the audio capabilities of my pc lately and I'm struggling to work out what the best direction to go would be so any advice from any audiophiles down under would be appreciated.

Currently running from the on-board sound on an Asus X99 deluxe m/board into an old Logitech 2.1 system. Been thinking about a couple of studio monitors (say something like Audioengine A5+) with a nice sub (maybe Wharfedale) but not sure about running a new internal soundcard or going down the DAC route. To be honest I don't really understand the wiring up side of things too well either when it comes to the monitor/DAC setup and what is required to drive the speakers and sub.

I have a fair amount of music in lossless FLAC format and there's also a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's to go into the equation.

Any advice and help warmly welcomed.

Cheers.

[wobblysauce]

If thinking Wharfedale.. just run line out to a normal amp/speaker setup.

Easier guide.. something from this.
https://teksyndicate.com/videos/buyers- ... s-over-250

[SE1Z]

I ended up getting the Corsair SP2500 system.
Can't fault it.

Best PC speaker/sub combo I've ever used.

Oops... Just re-read your post.
Sounds like your speakers will be used mostly for music, and not gaming?

[Johnny X]

Cheers for the link Wobbles, a few options there.

SE1Z, the system will be used for everything. I've just been building my system up slowly over the last couple of years and the final step is to get the audio side sorted out. I'm kinda not overly impressed with Corsair gear, a couple of items I've had from them have proved unreliable so I tend to stay away.

Cheers guys, food for thought.

[wabbit]

How big is the room? Something that should be taken into consideration

[ysu]

I've had a pretty good sound card before (Auzentech x-fi forte) that cost $250+, the sound was actually good with that. But it broke fairly quickly and was quirky.

I had on-board on a high-end mobo, and lower-end (sound blaster) card.
I've used mainly an Audiotechnica ATH-AD700 with these, later tried a hifiman he400 and smaller speaker sets at some point (I think they were Bang & Olufsen).

I'm listening to flac & ogg & mp3...all kinds of music, too.

But the latest setup blew me away, it was on recommendation I got from the headphones.com.au guy.

It's a Mayflower O2 DAC+opamp, and also bought a Beyerdynamic T90. It's sensational.
I'll never bother with sound cards again

[Johnny X]

@ wabbit - the room is 4m x 3m (there-abouts) and I do have to be careful about pissing off the neighbours when running through speakers

@ysu - Had a quick look at your latest setup but whatever I get needs to handle speakers as well as headphones.

[Shonky]

I'm using a set of Swan m50w 2.1 speakers and rate them pretty high in the audio quality department, excellent near field audio quality, not so much if you want to pump sound out across the room, that's not going to happen with 3" mid range drivers, if I was looking to fill a 4x3m room I think I'd go with some book shelf speakers with a 5" mid range with a sub, or a 6-8" without a sub, but then you need an amp to drive them.

As far as output from the PC, obviously a DAC is going to be the purest way forward but the most expensive, could you use an integrated DAC/Headphone amp, and when using speakers plug them in instead of the cans?

[ysu]

@ysu - Had a quick look at your latest setup but whatever I get needs to handle speakers as well as headphones.

What I mean is a DAC in my opinion is much better than a sound card. But a pricey route overall. (a decent DAC vs a very good sound card - the DAC still wins)

[Johnny X]

What I mean is a DAC in my opinion is much better than a sound card. But a pricey route overall. (a decent DAC vs a very good sound card - the DAC still wins)

Ok, I got you. DAC is the way I'll be going, just a matter of whether I keep it fairly simple and just go 2.0 or go for a sub as well.

[ysu]

What I mean is a DAC in my opinion is much better than a sound card. But a pricey route overall. (a decent DAC vs a very good sound card - the DAC still wins)

Ok, I got you. DAC is the way I'll be going, just a matter of whether I keep it fairly simple and just go 2.0 or go for a sub as well.

I reckon it's mostly up to personal preference, so good luck deciding
Maybe if you take your favourite musics to somewhere where you can listen in...

Myself, when I'll buy hifi next time, I'll stick to regular speakers, but really good ones.
I've got a surround yamaha system for the telly (can play music, too), but I don't like it much. The middle is missing. Altho in its defense it's a lower end system, so the smaller speakers are really small. But that's what you get under a thousand bucks.

Actually; I've listened to Bose 2+1 systems, too. They pack a good bass & sound clean, but too sharp & still missing the middle, in my opinion. Same or very similar to the yamaha system, now that I think about it.

I had a pair of decent hifi speakers & amp back at home; it was bliss to listen to - but it did not shake the bowels
Hell, it's still a bliss to listen to - my bro has it. After twenty-something years, the system still works perfectly well.

[wobblysauce]

+1 for headphones.com.au, my AD700's are probably 10years old now, almost used every day(some days you are not home.. ) number of 20hr sessions fit me like a glove, head size on the 61+ helmets.
+1 for a Mayflower O2 DAC+opamp.

But yes.. your hearing is your own.. and what sounds great for you might not sound good at all for another.

Admittedly I am still using my Logitech Z640 for the lounge room 13-14 years on, all out of sight, and still sound better then a bunch of other setups I have listened to from a number of price points, and wall locations.


Edit.

General thoughts on volume ratios?
Mine are currently 50%on Sub, 50% on speakers, and 20-30 on Tv(goes up to 11). It goes up to 100, split into 3 colours, Light Blue(Low), Blue(Med) and Red(High).
Never needed to go into the blue from 33+ as it is loud as it is, with things rattling on explosions, on the back wall unit and it being crystal clear.

Eg, just google'd the specifications for Z640's
Total RMS Power: 71.2 Watts
-- Subwoofer: 25.7 watts RMS into 4 ohms at 100Hz at 10% THD (total harmonic distortion); 19.0 watts RMS into 4 ohms at 100 Hz at 1% THD
-- Satellites: 45.5 watts RMS (2 x 7.3 w Front; 2 x 7.3 w Rear; 16.3 w Center) into 4 ohms at 1 kHz at 10% THD (total harmonic distortion); 32.7 watts RMS (2 x 5.6 w Front; 2 x 5.6 w Rear; 10.3 w Center) into 4 ohms at 1 kHz
Total Peak Power: 140 Watts at <10% THDSystem THD: Better than 0.05% THD before clipping

With some Telefunken 106cm(42inch) plasma, cant remember the spec, about 8years old or so, 1024x786 Pc mode.

[Johnny X]

Cheers peeps, good info so far.

There's a guy coming in to work tomorrow from AML who likes his audio so I'm gonna bend his ear a little. There's a good audio shop over in Manchester which I'll be looking up this weekend on the annual Xmas shopping trip so I'll take some selections over and see what they sound like on some decent gear.

Things will be happening soon and the neighbours will probably be in for a wake up call

[Sarsippius]

Good luck with it, audio is a snake oil salesman's dream, take any and all advice with a huge grain of salt, especially from anyone who thinks of themselves as an audiophile.

Personally for a PC I wouldn't bother with a DAC, something like a Xonar Essence STX will be more than enough for most people and the same money spent on a DAC will provide no benefit sound quality wise. My HTPC actually has a Xonar DG which you can't get any more it seems but was only about $80 and I couldn't really say the STX in my main pc is objectively any better for sound quality.

Number one priority is the speakers, this is where 90% of the budget should be going as they will have the most impact on the quality of the output, a DAC and an amp if needed are secondary as long as they aren't completely terrible or broken. People will bang on endlessly about DACs and amps but remain very skeptical about the benefits you will get from the money spent. Remember, speakers, speakers, speakers

Someone mentioned Swan 2.1 systems and I've heard they are pretty good, much better than any thing like logitech (or other 'gaming' brands, I could rant for days about people buying audio gear from brands that make steering wheels and mice) but 2.1 systems will still generally be fairly weak for bass, not really going that low. If you want good bass you're looking at a pair of floor standers or a good set of bookshelf speakers paired with a good sub. In that case a pair of powered bookshelfs can be a decent option to avoid having to worry about an amp and most subs will have their own built in amp, still subs aside most higher end speakers are not powered. Floor standers are a good option but they are big and unwieldy so I can understand anyone shying away from them but I got a good set and they sound great and go very low, most people would be surprised. However these are in the lounge, not the gaming room although the old lounge was only 4 x 4

Second hand is always a good option for getting good gear at a good price, people into audio seem to always have the upgrade itch so definitely check out forums or papers that advertise second hand audio equipment.

[ysu]

I'd like to argue a bit, Sarsi, hope you don't mind. I think you're a bit off there.
First of all I'm not an audiophile, if you mean eg painting my CDs for better sound, or any similar garbage. But I maybe one if you mean: I like nice, clear, authentic-sounding audio. Yes, there's a lot of bs going on (see the mentioned point above), but I also know that eg. electrical interference exists. Hell it can manifest in the weirdest ways. Like a good speaker cable wrapped twice around a tubular metal desk leg can paint your CRT monitor's lower corner green! (it was my setup!) So an internal card is already in danger.

It's a pretty much undefeatable statement that without a good source you can't have a good output. The money needs to be spent at every point, not "mostly at the speakers" in my opinion. Each step is equally important, the weakest link will pull the whole thing back. Balance is the key, not just good speakers.

I don't want to argue the dac point; it's a personal preference. Most people, indeed, don't need/want the higher quality (or simply can't afford it).
I'll be honest with you, until I got this setup I though exactly the same as you. But I've plugged this thing on, then plugged the headphones from one into the other...there's a difference. But it really only comes out with the good headphones! (Balance of components, again)
It's a bit like buying a 980gtx with a celeron CPU...it won't really give you what you wanted.

What's makes your post really interesting, though, is that my wife is similar to you (if I understand your post correctly); eg she thinks the entry level Yamaha system is as good as it gets, who needs better! She simply can't fathom the difference upwards from there...So maybe what you say is true in one way; a lot of people don't need hifi. And I mean no disrespect here, just observing something.

I can tell you I've listened in on some really great systems, and a great hifi system gives ME more. I wish I had that kind of dough lying around, hehe.

But one thing is true; the money you need to spend for the next step up is always exponentially more than the previous was, in the audio world
And each step is smaller than the previous was (quality-wise).
So hearing the difference is exponentially more difficult. Especially if you don't listen into them back-to-back with the same music.

All in all, in my opinion it's a very personal matter. So what you write is mostly true if you look at the world with your eyes (ears!) but it's not good as general advice. Each needs to listen in to tell what they need/want, where's the limit of what they can hear (and afford).

One anecdote to back my theory; A friend came over with his gf. I've demoed my setup to them (the DAC with the great headphones).
The guy said "u-hm...good". The gf though, was completely blown away. She is an opera singer.


Fuck, I can ramble on...sorry guys, I'll shut the piehole for today.

[Johnny X]

Hehe, I like to see some good conversation on a subject, and particularly on such a subjective subject Opinions differ but it's good to take in a cross section of views, there's usually something in there that I haven't thought about. Chatting with the guy from AML today he was basically saying that we all hear sound differently and we all have different views on how certain things should sound so what he thinks is top notch isn't necessarily going to be to my liking. I have the same "issue" with my best mate who tends to like a more trebly sound as opposed to my liking for some subtle bass to be apparent in what I'm listening to.

I'm off to listen to some setups at the weekend, the budget is 5 or 600 quid that has to include good quality cables and a couple of speaker stands. The majority will be going on the speakers so the plan is to listen to a few and buy whatever sounds best - to me - within the budget. I'll definitely be going down the DAC route though, it can only be better than the current, age old, Logitech system I've had for years. It's generally good but as I get older I'm finding my musical tastes are changing and I'd like to get a little more from what I'm listening to. I'll be taking some example tunes with me ranging from Deep House to Gustav Mahler so whatever I get has to cope with a fairly wide range.

Fingers crossed I can do it without breaking the bank

[ysu]

Good onya, mate!
I've never managed to stay within budget when buying hifi, before

[Johnny X]

Good onya, mate!
I've never managed to stay within budget when buying hifi, before

Oh oh... that sounds ominous

Fortunately I got a tax rebate today that will go towards the project... the mind blowing sum of £13.68... lol

[ysu]

hehe

[wobblysauce]

That would be Shonky with the Swan M50 2,1: http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/swan-multimedia/M50W

Further review of the other items under $250USD. with the other articles
https://teksyndicate.com/videos/buyers- ... -under-100
https://teksyndicate.com/videos/buyers- ... er-150-250

[wabbit]

I'm interested to see what you choose Jonny, as I wouldn't have clue what you buy for near field "on desk" speakers.

[Johnny X]

The deal is done

I'm going to keep you in suspense until it's set up That'll probably be at the end of the week as there's stuff just setting off from Amazon. The dealer visit confirmed my gut feeling so it's all pretty much the same manufacturer apart from the stands and the cables.

@ wabbit Part of the "reasoning" is that my pc desk is directly in line with my bed so the system will also be used for relaxing whilst reading and I'll also be able to plug in my Sennheisers and kick back. It's a triple screen display so the speakers will be on stands poking just over the displays and angled down a little to aim at my ears. The sub is down by my race pedals so my feet will get a little feedback/massage when I'm simming

I'm looking forward to all the bits getting here this week and switching it on for the first time

[ysu]

That sounds...auspicious

Good stuff. And this thread just not want to come up in the active threads list either. Seems any old thread that's resurrected share this fate.
Stupid phpbb

[Johnny X]

Yep, it's basically going to be an audioengine setup. A5+ monitors and D1 DAC. I listened to a few setups on Saturday and although the KRK Rokit 6 gen 3 made a nice sound they were just too big for a desktop setup. the A5+ were the best sounding of the lot to me, they don't quite have the range of the KRK's but that will be sorted by the sub and I'm not too bothered about the higher frequencies. At the end of the day the sound of the audioengine gear made me smile most and they sit pretty much in the range where my ears work. Listening to some live classical music (Smetana - Ma Vlast) was a revelation. Hard to describe for me so I'll just call it "definition" and clarity.

I bought the monitors at the shop and the rest of the gear via Amazon, felt a little guilty about going in and basically just using the shop to sound out the alternatives (no pun intended) and then walking out without buying anything. Speakers were £300 (could have saved a fiver at amazon) so I've managed to come in on budget when it's all totted up.

I'll post a pic when it's all here and set up. I appreciate folks' input, it's helped me out making my decision so thanks all

[wabbit]

Glad your happy I do have one question, do you think your preconceived ideas skewed your purchase?

And hey it's okay if they did, happiness is happiness. I just re read your first post and noticed, thought it worth asking