What should I start with...

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Montey
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What should I start with...

Post by Montey »

I've decided that it is time I get back in to SLR/DSLR photography and would like some advice on what I should get.

3 decades ago I was mucking around with an old Canon EOS film model (no idea what the actual model number was) that was hand-me-down from may father, and many moons ago I had a Minolta DiMAGE 7. But since then I've had nothing and have exclusively used whatever camera was on my mobile phone.

I am interested in landscape photography, sporting photography, and general family photographs. In time I would like to get in to some astro photography, but this has no immediate priority.

I am prepared to spend as much as $4,000 but would prefer to spend closer to $3,000; I currently have nothing (except a tripod) so I need a body, glass, and anything else (filters, bag, etc.)

I believe I am best served by getting either a Canon or Nikon setup, due to the availability of lenses; and my research (to date) suggests I would be better served with a full-frame camera but, to be honest, I don't know enough about the difference between full frame and cropped sensor to be sure. My biggest concern about a cropped sensor is painting myself in to a corner with glass; that if I go cropped sensor I will need matching glass and if it ever changes in the future I will have to replace all of my glass; that if I go full frame I am more likely to be able to keep my glass for use with any body upgrades.

Based on reviews I have liked the look of the Nikon D610. The D500 also gets some excellent reviews. I have not yet got to considering what lenses I should be after, or what accessories.

If you were starting from scratch, with a budget of $3k to $4k, what sort of set up would you go for?

Also... does anyone have any opinions of purchasing from DWI (e.g. http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/ast ... meras.aspx)?
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DexterPunk
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Re: What should I start with...

Post by DexterPunk »

I believe DWI are gray. Cheaper yes, but also a bit more risky when it comes to an Aussie warranty. I'd be more likely to risk it with a lens (less electronics to go wrong) than a body, or flash.

Hmmm if I had to start over wth $3-4K... I personally would go for full frame if I could. Are the D500/610 weather sealed? Perhaps look into a second hand D800 as well. The sensor in those guys are simply stunning. No doubt similar story in the Canon 5D3. I'd buy one good 'L series', or equiv in Nikon. And what's left over spend on a body. You may have to look second hand for that money. Good quality lenses last. Bodies tend to be upgraded more often.

One thing to consider is if you think weight of the kit will stop you using it. Keeping my weight to pretty much a minimum, I'm often at about 12kg. This is because I don't want to compromise on image quality, and I'll happily man-up and take what's necessary to create the best images I can. One thing I repeatedly ran into back when selling camera gear, were people who eventually realised they didn't want the bulk of a dSLR... once I started showing them backpacks etc.

Essentially it doesn't matter how good your camera is, if you're not going to take it with you. Quite often you will have to organise trips specifically for landscapes/astro. Trying to fit it into a family trip becomes difficult, and you never really have the time required, or patient enough people around you willing to wait for you to finish. I'm not trying to discourage a dSLR, but I'd say be open minded when it comes to some of the mirrorless systems out there. Almost everything in photography has advantages and disadvantages.

Things you are going to want with a new camera:

Bag - check out the Lowepro Flipside sport. I've had numerous bags, and traveled across the globe a few times with them. This is by far the best travel/landscape/outdoor pack i've ever owned.
Filters - Neutral Density and Circular Polariser. Almost everything else can be done post production, but the results you get from these guys can't be. Unless you like the idea of spending more time editing photos than you do photographing.
Spare battery - It's a must really, perhaps also look at a battery grip if going the dSLR route, and don't mind the weight.
Tripod - You mentioned you have one, see how that goes for the time being. You will likely want to upgrade that to something carbon fiber for outdoor stuff/walks.
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Re: What should I start with...

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Oh and difference between crop sensor and full frame is essentially just sensor size.

Full frame = size of 35mm film frame, which is about 1.5-1.6x bigger than the smaller (crop) sensors. But it does effect your lenses and in turn your images. Without getting too technical, a crop sensor has more depth of field. It can be advantageous, but a lot of people want nice out of focus areas behind people in portraits... and they aren't as good at that. They are also often worse at collecting light, without a bunch of smoke and mirrors to get around it. This comes down to basic physics, (larger photosites possible due to more sensor real estate = lower signal/noise ratio), and you can't cheat that. They have a harder job getting a nice wide angle shot with glass that is future proof. Not 100% sure with Nikon as I only use them at work, not for landscapes. But Canon glass, you pay around $2000 for a EF 16-35mm L, that won't be very wide on a crop sensor, and if you want something like a 10-20mm, you won't be able to fit that on a full frame later on.
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Re: What should I start with...

Post by CLP »

Pentax K1 probably fits your requirements in many respects.

Full frame, weather resistant (with appropriate lens), very capable for landscapes, can do astrophotography out of the box. Low light performance is outstanding. Probably the downside is that Pentax's autofocus can be a bit sluggish at times, so sports can be a struggle (depends on the sport really.. )

Lenses are K mount so you can potentially use any glass from ~1975 up to the present. Current lens selection is admittedly limited compared to Canon and Nikon, but there's pretty much everything you need out there. On the up side, Lenses tend to be cheaper. Also, with in-body image stabilisation any compatible lens can take advantage of the image stabilisation system.
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Re: What should I start with...

Post by DexterPunk »

The Pentax would be nice.

If you can stretch it a little further though, I'd go with the Sony A7RII. Incredible sensor (Same Nikon use in their pro bodies), and can take either the Sony lenses or the full range of Canon EF lenses with full autofocus etc. In fact, the Canon lenses focus faster on the A7RII than they do on any Canon dSLR due to the on sensor phase detection. I've been seriously considering buying one as my landscape camera.
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Re: What should I start with...

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They apparently take the old Minolta lenses pretty well too...

https://petapixel.com/2015/03/11/old-ti ... al-camera/
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Re: What should I start with...

Post by Montey »

Thanks for the input guys.

As much as the Pentax and Sony options are very interesting, think sticking with one of the main two brands (Canon or Nikon) keeps as many doors/windows open as possible for future evolution of my photographic kit.

I love the idea of going the 2nd-hand route for a camera body. My initial investigations suggest that a Nikon D800 body with a relatively low count can be purchased for between $1800-$2000. I have noticed, however, that there are more recent variants in the series (D800, D800E, D810, D810A) which suggests to me that the original D800 may have had some issues (e.g. the D600 had an issue with dirt/oil getting on the sensor so they replaced the model with the D610). Do you guys know if the reason for the E, 10, and 10A variants of the D800 was because of faults with the D800 which means I should avoid it?

Do you have recommendations regarding where to best purchase used camera bodies (and/or lenses); I assume eBay is a bad idea? Also, what should I look for regarding what might make a good used unit as opposed to a bashed-up one?
- When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy.
- If youre paddling upstream in a canoe and a wheel falls off, how many pancakes fit in a doghouse? None! Icecream doesn't have bones!!!
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Re: What should I start with...

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The d810 is the newer version of the d800. Nothing wrong at all with the d800. It's what I use 90% of the time at work. It's a true studio/landscape camera. It's not as much specifically built for sport, but something has to give somewhere. The closest you can get to a true all rounder is a 5d3 canon, or even more so, a 1Dx and 1Dx2. The 1Dx I have was near $7k when I bought it, I'd assume quite a bit cheaper now, but that's just for the body.

The d800E has the moire filter removed. Awesome for landscapes for a tad extra sharpness but the downside is it can confuse repeating patterns in general photography and portraits etc. I wouldn't go down that route unless you want something exclusively for landscapes. Astro would be ok with one too. I'm guessing the A would be Astro specific body, canon has done that before as well. Possibly removal of IR filter? I haven't checked it out to be honest.

To buy second hand, I'd recommend buying from a reputable second hand dealer. They often provide a warranty and you get to actually inspect and handle the camera before buying. Camera Exchange is where you wanna go (I think you're in Melb?) they have moved from the city to boxhill I believe. Beyond a shutter count it's hard to know if anything is really off. Taking a photo of a blank white wall at a small aperture (f/22 for example) will let you know if the sensor is dirty and may show up and sensor errors. You need to expose correctly for that white surface though. You need to over expose by 2.5 stops, otherwise it will be grey. That's how reflected metering in a dSLR works. Might be getting a bit tricky when you're starting out.

I wouldn't write off a A7RII. Given you can use any canon or Sony lens, you're really not limiting yourself very much. It's also a smaller bit of kit since it doesn't need a mirror system, and mirror box for the viewfinder.




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Re: What should I start with...

Post by DexterPunk »

Feel free to contact me Montey, always happy to help.


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Re: What should I start with...

Post by CLP »

your best best for 2nd hand might be a local shop that deals with that sort of thing. Being from ADL i can't really help to tell you where that might be local to you. Doing that will let you check something out (particularly a body) for signs of mistreatment. You might get lucky and find a low shutter count body that was merely the backup body of a Pro that's upgraded..

You could also look at forums for second hand kit. OCAU for example seems to have a fairly active photography buy and sell group. I've bought a few lenses that way. I've also bought lenses (new and second hand) from ebay without too much trouble .. YMMV however!
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Re: What should I start with...

Post by Montey »

Thanks again guys.

I've been doing some online browsing and I found this mob (www.cameraexchange.com.au) who appear to be a proper bricks-and-mortar store that specialises in used camera equipment.

They have a used Minolta D800 body listed for $2,145.00 (http://cameraexchange.com.au/index.php? ... uct_id=569) and what appears, on my uninformed inspection, to be a decent collection of used lenses (http://cameraexchange.com.au/index.php? ... path=45_52). I'd be very interested in your input on whether any of the used lenses they list should be of interest and whether you consider them to be good value (i.e. are they a rip-off)?

I have also seen some nice bags (I've not investigated to the point of deciding on a preferred one); the style I quite like are the ones that are worn a bit like a courier bag (I think they are called a sling bag). Something that can keep the camera body safe, carry a couple of lenses, and a few random accessories. Something like https://www.incase.com/shop/camera-bags ... ling-pack/ looks pretty cool.
- When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy.
- If youre paddling upstream in a canoe and a wheel falls off, how many pancakes fit in a doghouse? None! Icecream doesn't have bones!!!
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What should I start with...

Post by DexterPunk »

Yes, camera exchange is what I mentioned in a post above. They are the store that was in the CBD and have since moved. They are great place to buy used gear. You will pay more buying from them than eBay etc. but they (at least used to) sell gear with a warranty.

The sling bags are ok. But don't tend to distribute weight very well. If they are a decent size and carry a few lenses and body, the bag will get quite heavy. It's much more comfortable to have a bag with proper shoulder straps.


This is the bag I mentioned before. It has some VERY well thought out features.





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Re: What should I start with...

Post by CLP »

My current bag is a LowePro Pro Runner 200 which is a fairly small backpack style. I've used it for a number of years now, and found it to be pretty handy. I can fit my K1, plus battery grip, and Tamron 70-200mm lens in there plus a couple of smaller lenses. That's generally enough for a day out for me.
http://store.lowepro.com/ca/pro-runner-200-aw-ca

Miss V has a Tamrac Corona 20, which is a bit larger, but also has more access options. This one can be converted to a sling style bag as well, though it might be a bit awkward IMHO.
http://www.tamrac.com/collections/backp ... /corona-20
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