New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:23 am

DexterPunk wrote:The aim with flashing back, would be to avoid any warranty issues.

Well, I reckon if they see an aftermarket header, it's obvious you'd have a tune...and they can tell if they look. So if a tune voids warranty, you maybe best staying off a header (as it's a very telling sign).

p.s. I've had the car in for warranty since the whole thing, when I hit a curb. Nobody cared about the aftermarket parts nor the tune. I've even told them not to mess with the ECU in any case, as it has a special tune on.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:28 am

Yeah that's why I thought I'd chat to them about it before doing anything. And also why I thought a tune alone would be ok if they are super tight about warrantys


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby Sarsippius » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 am

I think it's only an issue if the dealer wants to be a dick about it and try and weasel their way out of some warranty work, the majority of the time it's probably a non issue but you hear the odd story where they can really be pricks.

Dex I was simply referring to flashing a tune on a completely stock car with the stock header. You are looking at a minimum of $4-500 dollars for at best a 3-4kw power increase and having the motor run a bit better all round. That's not a big sum of money in car terms but I guess what I meant is it's up to the individual whether they think that is worth it or not. It's not like modern turbo cars where you can flash a tune and get big performance gains.

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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:59 am

Yeah I'm aware there wouldn't be a lot of extra power with it stock. The stock tune as it is, is different to previous 86/BRZ's, so I'm not sure if with the combination of new bits on the car and a different tune out of the box means flashing it will be more or less beneficial. Rather than a peak power gain, i'd be actually more happy to smooth out the torque dip a bit more. Once you get out the other side and over around 5k, the car goes reasonably well. You just spend a lot of time hitting the bottom of that dip during day to day driving. If I don't grab new headers I could always run it on E85 with a tune.

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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:51 pm

Sorry, I'm an idiot. That was not warranty, it was insurance I had. Anyway "something official" :)
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby Sarsippius » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:05 am

At least with the pre 2017 motors the only way to get rid of the torque dip is with a UEL header, the only EL header that has been shown to remove it is the ACE one that ysu has. I'm not an expert on all of this stuff though, maybe the Stage 1 tune does help reduce the torque dip somewhat but from how I understand it it's more like a tweak rather than significantly changing the way the motor behaves.

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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:49 am

I'm pretty sure if there was a way with stock headers, Toyota or Subaru would have found it by now, and it would be on the 2017 car.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby crimespree » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:56 am




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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:29 pm

There's a group buy going on at the Vic 86/BRZ club that I've joined. How difficult is it to fit this expensive piece of plastic?


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby Sarsippius » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:26 pm

Doesn't look like it's that difficult although I haven't watched the whole vid. I would question if you really need one though, sounds like it's only a problem on longish high g left hand turns when using e85 and/or forced induction. Seems like you would also need upgraded suspension and tyres to reach the type of g's required.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:49 pm

I've heard about a fuel starvation issue earlier (not sure if it's the same) that was only affecting FI cars on slicks.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby crimespree » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:06 pm

It will affect cars on e85 and above on high g left hand turns. More so if an aftermarket pump is fitted.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:26 am

Sounds good. So on E85 is already that much thirstier, huh?
If I may ask;
What's the mileage on E85 on the track? (I've got around 22L/100km on ron98 - which is awesome compared to the supercharged lotus I met at EC, hehe.)
And what G's you guys are pulling in those left handers? (those who have this issue)
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:21 am

Took the BRZ in for its one month check up / ask questions thing. I asked about mods/warranty. And he pretty much confirmed what is discussed here. Basically said, "it's your car, you can do what you like to it. But if something goes wrong and the modded part could be seen as a contributor to the failure, then the warranty is void."

I mentioned that I was interested in a header and tune. He said that messing with the ECU could potentially render the whole engine and drive train warranty void. Not sure how that works exactly. Surely the diff (for example) has little to do with the ECU. And he gave the example of headers not producing enough or too much back pressure could be a reason for engine issues, or perhaps a failing MAF sensor. How much is a sensor to replace though.

He wasn't all that discouraging, just said to be careful about what/how the mods are done if I'm going to do it.

He sort of hinted that an air intake or catback would be fine. But both of those things do nothing for performance.

I'm leaning towards just leaving it stock. I took it through some country backroads yesterday for a spirited drive and had an absolute blast. Love the movement and yaw the car gets when driving through some twisty corners.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby Sarsippius » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:45 am

Get some camber bolts for the front and get a wheel alignment with as much camber as they can get, it definitely sharpens up the front. If you're suspension is lower because of your shocks then you'll have a bit more camber anyway but even with the bolts you won't get so much that it'll be too much. I run 2 degrees but that's only achievable because the MCA shocks have adjustable top hats. The bolts are Whiteline, I can get the part number later if you want.

Crimespree have more thoughts on this but the general wisdom seems to be 0 degrees for toe and it's what I run.

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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:39 pm

I did 0 toe as well, and around 1.4 camber (max with bolts only, whiteline as well). It's quite noticeable when you first drive it like that; you need to keep your eye on the road, the car loves to wander around even just by breathing on the wheel :)

It's a bit of a shame that the default camber is zero (or even slightly positive).

If you ever come around the central coast, Dex, I'm happy to let you take mine for a spin to compare. The header+tune wakes the car up :)
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New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby crimespree » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:48 pm

Ysu knows what he is talking about. I run a little toe out in the front and 0 in rear and that is fine even with 255s on long drives. Unless you are going silly though 0 or a little toe in is fine front and rear for a street car for less aggressive steering and more rear stability.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:08 am

ysu wrote:If you ever come around the central coast, Dex, I'm happy to let you take mine for a spin to compare. The header+tune wakes the car up :)


Thanks heaps ysu. I'll be sure to give you a yell if I ever get up that way.

I'm probably in an 'ignorance is bliss' situation right now. I'm positive some headers/tune would do a lot of good. But I'm also loving the car without the mods so far.

I'm just weighing up if it's worth risking warranty over.

Ps. Are you still planning on selling the OFT? I believe the 3.0 tunes for 2017 cars are floating about the FT86 forums now, and not far from being released on the OFT sight. The only thing I'm not sure of, is whether or not they work the same with our ROM version in Australia. I'd be interested to see how the car ran on e85. How much were you looking to sell it for?




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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:36 am

Ah, I'm happy to give you the OFT. It usually goes for ~$600 it I think, but if you want it, I'll give you an ARSE rate of $400. :)

I've paid over $800 for it all up (shipping from the us isn't cheap) although the AU$ is a bit better right now so it just maybe a tad cheaper.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:44 pm

Awesome. Thanks ysu! I'll do some reading over the next couple of days and make sure I'm able to use it.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:15 pm

YSU do you know what rom you have? Does it vary from 12-16 and 17 models? And does it vary from US cars to Australian cars?

Shiv just posted a new v3.02 tune for catted headers (works with stock as well) for e85 for rom K00C.bin.

I suppose I need the OFT first to see what I need.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

Yes, OFT can tell you what is your rom code. I do not possess knowlege of the '17 roms at all. I've heard they're different, but different how? Dunno.

I've got a weird rom myself, it's a '15 car but some japanese rom in it, apparently. Everyone is scraching their heads how this car got this ECU, hehe. But the delicious tuning chaps have put a tune together that's meant for this ECU, this header and this fuel - and it's nice and smooth, so that's done.
I've used wayno's aus tune before. Interestingly that gave me a slightly better quarter-mile time, but it felt rather choppy at times.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby DexterPunk » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:38 pm

Yeah I've seen him commenting. All his tunes work for 12-16 cars, not for 17's :(

I believe the fuel tables etc for the 17 cars are more complex and quite different. I really have no idea what it all means though.


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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby ysu » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:44 am

DexterPunk wrote:Yeah I've seen him commenting. All his tunes work for 12-16 cars, not for 17's :(

I believe the fuel tables etc for the 17 cars are more complex and quite different. I really have no idea what it all means though.


Well, I think it means they're not compatible :hide: I've never tried to dabble with the tunes themselves, I have not the time to try and learn all that.
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Re: New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

Postby Sarsippius » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:00 am

Yeah I think it's going to be difficult for you, unless you want to cough up the dough like ysu did you'll probably just have to wait and see what develops. It probably wouldn't hurt to give Tony at Coyote Tuning a call and see what he suggests, he might know someone in Melb who can do a tune or who could flash one of his tunes.

I wouldn't be in too much of a rush though, enjoy it for what it is for a while.


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