Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

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VIPEROSI
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Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by VIPEROSI »

Since joining the iracing community ive noticed a trend that i have to say doesnt really exist in other forms of sim racing such as the public races of lfs and rfactor.

And that trend is for people to get massively worked up and abusive over accidents.

Now the iracing rules state you shouldnt be abusive to other members etc but in reality no one is abiding to those rules and each race tends to have some kind of shit fight of abuse thrown back and forth.

I have to say it really lets the whole sim down as a whole, like a small accident in any other sim is just that a accident. Its done and its over with, there might be a bit of abuse if it was a really dodgy incident.

But in iracing it seems that peoples obsession over penaltys that get applied even if you are not the driver at fault, or for stupid things like dropping wheels of the circuit etc breeds some kind of elite ego where any small incident involving another driver is blown way out of proportion.

Does anyone else seem to think that the penalty's system harshness and application actually creates hostility within the sim?
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by ysu »

Talking about Simone, eh? :lol:

anyway...

Hostility? Definitely not.
But!
People assign a lot more importance to iRacing than any other sim I reckon. That's because:

- in no other sim you have a licensing & SR system
- in no other sim does it hamper your chances of going forward if others bump you around
- in no other sim you have a word-wide championship series with thousands participating
- you can't initiate a kick against obviously wrong drivers, and penalties seem to be few and far between and even then lenient regarding accidents. The real penalty would be if someone's rating drops - but sadly at low levels it's too easy, even at a C2.0+ you can get away with nearly anything. It gets devilishly severe at A4.0+.

Having said all this, there are a few people who lose it all the time and start the verbal abuse, some take it much better. Nothing to worry about overmuch. Report what you don't like and walk on.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by Exar Kun »

I've never had an issue with people getting abusive. I honestly can't recall a single race i've been in where someone has spazzed out. :tilt:
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by nutty »

I can think of heaps, I think its because I generally play with Americans
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by ysu »

oh, by the way; to say that this does not exist in other games...really???
I've seen it in LFS and rF as well, even back in the GTL days - people who take it really seriously always have and always will spew when something happens to them. :)
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by Santaria »

When I played, all that time ago, I found myself getting more and more pissed at stupid decisions by other drivers as it hurt my $15US a month payment and my progression. In LFS, if I cop a knock, I get a little pissed, but mostly just continue on and get on with the race.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by NeilPearson »

For me it depends on the attitude of the driver who crashes me.

Today I ran into John Gorlinski, who has a really bad attitude in the DWC race at daytona his connection was so bad anyone who tried to pass him got crashed out. but he refused to pull off track and won the race.

Anyway today he crashed in t2 at atlanta, then into 3 he was on the apron and spun it into oncoming traffic, then laughed at everyone who hit him saying were all idiots for hitting him. when i was approaching t3 he was on the apron pointing forward so i didnt think to slow down, then when he spun i had no where to go. Now when in his position id be doing my best to keep the car on the apron and slowing up, instead he tried his best to get back upto speed, i checked his speed on the replay. Alot of people were very upset with him. including myself but he couldnt see he was in the wrong.

Now before this going into t1 i squeezed a guy and we both copped a 4x, it was an accident on my part i thought there was more room and i apologised to the guy saying i messed up and he was okay with it and that he knows im normaly not like that, but half a lap later he was angry at gorlinkski for what he did and as he said more his attitude.

Most people can handle a racing incident i have found, and an apolgy goes along way.

One thing also is the big contender if you get into a series of accidents over a few races wich arent your fault, then with the SR/IR system it gets frustrating and thats when you find more people getting angry.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by DarrenM »

I've seen dummy spits and shitfights over driving in every sim (usually pickup races where it matters the least), but I do think the SR system makes things a little more tense though. Not because it's harsh (because it isn't in my opinion), but because it's so in your face. Being in your face is probably what makes it seem harsh because it focuses you on the short term.

I think it would cause less angst if they got rid of the on screen message and replaced it with a counter on the F1 screen or only show it on the results like iRating. It's usually pretty obvious when you've get an inc, so you don't really need have a message pop up and slap you in the face with it. Practice and qual are the only times you really need to know immediately.

People rarely complain about losing iRating when they get taken out, but that's harder to regain than SR. Out of sight out of mind?

Still, if the week 13 and 24HDF races are any guide, it's doing its job.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by ysu »

you don't need iRating for progression, Darren...I think that's the reason.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by Simone Gelli »

well.....you do something stupid and you get abused.......as simple as that,in real life,at work,in the family,in relations,when you do something stupid,there is a punishment,verbal,phisical,financial,,,,there is no escape,you make a mistake and you pay the consequences,this is life is not iracing.
Of course this is a game,but we are in a virtual competition,and adrenaline runs high,ppl practice for hours to become competitive(competitive=mor fun) and when someone miss the braking mark of 200 metres....well....he can get f....there r tracks and places where it is almost impossible to pass without risking a collision,damage,points,in real life you could risk life or serious injuries,,and yet ppl dive or force their way ,,the lack of realism in some ppl is sad.
Yes there are rules,and not to abuse someone is paramount,i sometimes can`t help it,.but i always say sorry after........yes i rarely put a wheel on the grass,touch someone even at close chase and at high speed,you know why?.....practice,and a huge sense of realism.At PRO level a mistake is a mistake,and when i see someone who happily hit me in the back under braking causing x4(i hate this kind of x4 lol) ,,,i know,,i will say something bad to him,but i will be the first to shout a beer afterwards.

I love iracing online :yes:
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by nutty »

I think its been too long since most of you have been a rookie/lower rank trying to get up.
I quit over it, its a fucked system.

Takes you 4-5 races to make back a bad race, and 4x are given out for the smallest contact at times that doesnt disadvantage anyone.. or wose you get a 4x when someone makes a mistake and you cant avoid it.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by ysu »

yes Nutty, but a 4x won't give you such a disadvantage at low levels. You barely lose any SR over it.
I do remeber being at rookie & lower licence level...we had to complete full seasons back then, even after reaching 4.99SR on our licence. There was no fast-tracking :)
But I also remember an easy challenge regarding the SR.
I put way too much thought into it, for no reason; I had plenty of time to raise it in each season.

If the SR is a real problem for you, then you either have to change something yourself to get cleaner - or indeed give up. It will just get harder and harder.

(the only circumstance where it seems you lose a lot is when you step back over a whole value - you lose 0.5 straight away. So dropping from 3.1 under 3 will automatically deduct an extra 0.5 - that may hurt indeed. Be extra careful)


Edit: but it maybe that the rookie level itself has changed and those who cannot work their way up now saturate it? If indeed that's the case what I'd recommend is either hanging back, or driving away, and just concentrating on leaving the racetrack with a clean record to get out of there as quickly as possible.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by VIPEROSI »

I just seem to notice that every single bingle with people in the game wether it involves myself or others results in immediate abuse.

Its never a civil discussion like...how come you hit me with i left you room etc....its just immediate...Your a idiot, you cant drive for shit or crap like that.

Saving replays and reporting incidents all the time would get tiresome and not to mention you would feel like a prick dobbing everyone in all the time. I just wish there was some harsher ruling when it comes to the abuse, because its damn distracting and rude when your racing.

And also if your on the recieving end of crap from a guy who obviously caused the accident not you, you feel obliged to reply to it because his basically tarnishing your reputation in front of a whole server of people.

Ysu you make a good point on there being no kick/ban system, if only there was in the legends races....What an incredibly frustrating and tiresome process those races are getting caught up with morons who deliberately ram and drive backwards etc. I cannot wait till i graduate from my oval rookie licence because i never intend to take part in the rookie series ever again once its done.

I agree with you on the contact system nutty, how you can have a 0x one moment a 4x the next with massive steering damage over two incidents that may as well be identical is incredibly frustrating.

There has to be some way of overhauling the system to a more fairer one that doesnt create such hostility.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by DarrenM »

nutty wrote:I think its been too long since most of you have been a rookie/lower rank trying to get up
When I went up the cpi requirements were higher, so it was actually harder.

With the average incidents you can get away with now, sorry to be offensive, but I think you have to be either totally unwilling to learn to drive within your own abilities (only one person to blame for off tracks and self spins) or just plain borderline retarded to not be able to attain and hold A license with the current system.

I've averaged something like 4 inc per race in DWC, about 1 for every 10 laps. I've been getting a couple nearly every qual session as well and it's still holding steady at the equivalent of an A 4.x level. So maybe part of the issue is that people stay in the lower series where they have less laps to make up for the occasional bingle and where they expose themselves to more rookies and crappy drivers? If you're only driving low series you don't need a high license though, so I don't see why it would be an issue.

The fact that you quit over 4x's supports my point. Getting one every couple races from another drivers mistake is insignificant in the overall picture, yet to you it was a big enough deal to quit over. Why was that?
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by ysu »

aaah...wait, viper, you're talking about legends, I suppose you're oval racing? ouch, yes you are...
then my comments may not worth too much, oval side as I heard is full of american idiots.

plus there's an enormous chance you'll race on US based servers, which means close racing becomes dangerous with the increased lag
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by NeilPearson »

ysu wrote:aaah...wait, viper, you're talking about legends, I suppose you're oval racing? ouch, yes you are...
then my comments may not worth too much, oval side as I heard is full of american idiots.

plus there's an enormous chance you'll race on US based servers, which means close racing becomes dangerous with the increased lag
Higher ping means nothing in iracing ysu, I happily race with the yanks every race I do.

Also road racers struggle with ovals at first, ask gizmo. There is no blocking on ovals, if someone is under neath you and you cut across his nose and crash both of you out it's your fault.
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Re: Does Iracing's penalty system breed discontent.

Post by VIPEROSI »

I mainly road race ysu i was just using the legends races as example. But im getting into the oval races, i have been happy to just wait for a promotion on them rather then race regularly and get my licence quicker tho because the crap that goes on in a legends race puts me off it.

Maybe it doesnt happen in the championships b and above, but man there has been some shit thrown about in the mustang cup races.

As i now have made it to a c 4+ licence i am starting to notice how the system is harsher on you and its not as easy to raise your sr significantly like it was in lower licences so i can see how it might aggravate people being involved in accidents.

Dont get me wrong i am totally obsessed with iracing at the moment and just finished 15th overall in the mustang cup, and second aussie (as of 25th july). Was a great series, but as i was not aware of how races and championship points are accumulated i made the mistake of taking part in too many races and having my points haul reduced. Had a wicked time though and racked up ten wins :)
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