Qantas the next to go?

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J.D.
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Qantas the next to go?

Post by J.D. »

Ford, Holden, Toyota, SPC...now Qantas?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-16/r ... ce/5262958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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SPC has been saved..joint effort by Vic government and CCA...
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by J.D. »

Yeah, the only silver lining on a very dark cloud.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by Hazelb »

J.D. wrote:Yeah, the only silver lining on a very dark cloud.
And if we don't protect it, like other countries do, then we will loose all manufacturing...

Ive always maintained we went around protecting the car industry the wrong way...

Dont fork out billions to he parent companies, support the consumer who buys a locally made product with a subsidy...

Put a bloody tariff on it...f**k level playing fields..we all know they are not level when you pay someone $2 a day...
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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My dad was chatting to one of his old Alcoa work mates who is still there and they said there is rumors it'll close any day now. It'll basically be last minute 'boys we are shutting the plant now, start turning things off'. No warning like how Ford, Holden and Toyota are doing it. They can have everything off including the pots within 2 days. Geelong is becoming a ghost town for production.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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w00dsy wrote:My dad was chatting to one of his old Alcoa work mates who is still there and they said there is rumors it'll close any day now. It'll basically be last minute 'boys we are shutting the plant now, start turning things off'. No warning like how Ford, Holden and Toyota are doing it. They can have everything off including the pots within 2 days. Geelong is becoming a ghost town for production.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-18/a ... ry/5266330
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by richo »

I get the odd feeling that the change of Government is a bit of a scapegoat with these companies why are they jumping at this particular time ? The Libs have not been in power long enough to radically change the economy and to a simpleton like me it doesn't appear to be radically changed yet these companies are bailing out one after the other and imho it's all about the parent companies bottom line rather the economic conditions .

Then again I probably have the bull by the tail .
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by ysu »

(disclaimer: uneducated guess ;) )
It could be that they were expecting better outlooks, hence waited, but now that they see that nothing will improve in the foreseeable future, they decided to shut it down.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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pab wrote:
w00dsy wrote:My dad was chatting to one of his old Alcoa work mates who is still there and they said there is rumors it'll close any day now. It'll basically be last minute 'boys we are shutting the plant now, start turning things off'. No warning like how Ford, Holden and Toyota are doing it. They can have everything off including the pots within 2 days. Geelong is becoming a ghost town for production.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-18/a ... ry/5266330

I just had lunch with my dad and he said there will be 3 months of sickies and people pinching as much shit as they can :D
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by ysu »

in the meantime, I'm sure you've heard of it, uncle Rupert gets a bit of pocket money...
http://www.afr.com/p/business/marketing ... CV1fQ5UJvJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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So it goes:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-27/q ... et/5287662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was inevitable and one of the reasons behind Qantas' position now.

The airline has consistently blamed its staff for the cost of labour but the management must take at least an equal share of the blame. Back in the late 90's Qantas was offered the option of buying brand new B777 aircraft and trading in their old jumbos. this made perfect sense because the 777 carried nearly as many passengers at least as far for 2/3 of the seat/mile cost. They turned it down. Twice more Qantas knocked back the 777, as recently as 2007 and now they are shackled to Emirates just to get into the 777 market.

I've been saying this for years. Why?

Because in the days of Geoff Dixon, Margaret Jackson and the late James Strong, Qantas was making money hand over fist. The customers were largely happy and the routes were expanding. The board's attitude was "why change dicks in the middle of a good screw?" The result was that they waited until it was too late, meanwhile the board was raking it in. I remember Dixon's attitude during the failed sale to a Texas-based private equity firm. It was arrogance personified.

With old bangers like the 747 still in service, Qantas has one of the oldest international fleets, irrespective of record. Their seat/mile costs are uncompetitive and why, oh why, are they still trying to push a budget carrier in a region which wants full service? No wonder they're stuffed.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by ysu »

I reckon the big companies should change the bonus payout structures...delayed bonus would be best; you get the bonus in five years if the company is still ok. i.e. you risk 5 years of income if you fuck up.
The few lucky, but (often) not too competent people "at the top" need a good curbing. They don't run their own business so their goals are very short-sighted and very personal.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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How this guarantees Australian jobs I'm not sure:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... 340k4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Business can't run itself.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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It won't guarantee jobs... Just like yours is not guaranteed and nor is mine...

But the government has obviously realised they can't put rules in place that do not allow qantas to compete on a level playing field... Qantas competes with many global airlines who do not have ownership restrictions placed on it...

They either have to support it, or release it from the restrictions it operates under... Looks like they have chosen one of the options...

Otherwise everybody will lose their jobs at qantas... Nobody knows how this will play out, if the market is there, then there will be jobs, either directly with qantas, or with other airlines, tourism operators etc who will take up the slack...

Whichever way they pick to support qantas somebody will have a bitch about it... The only wrong decision though is to do nothing at all...
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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bengatta wrote:It won't guarantee jobs... Just like yours is not guaranteed and nor is mine...
Abbott's words, not mine. Read between the lines.
Otherwise everybody will lose their jobs at qantas... Nobody knows how this will play out, if the market is there, then there will be jobs, either directly with qantas, or with other airlines, tourism operators etc who will take up the slack...
That would appear to be contradictory. I also disagree with you about who knows where it's going. If Qantas is allowed to be broken up, Joyce will rebrand it as a sort of "Jetstar MkII" or even "Australian MkII" in order to reduce pilot salaries and make cabin crews an offshore resource. Turning Qantas in RyanAir.
Whichever way they pick to support qantas somebody will have a bitch about it... The only wrong decision though is to do nothing at all...
Well, doing nothing at all was what got them into this position. It's all very well to talk about a "strong economic position" but what happens when there's a downturn? Everyone gets it in the neck. A really strong financial position would allow them to absorb losses without wholesale sackings.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by J.D. »

By the way: all this to a degree academic as the bill probably won't pass the upper house.

That means whatever happens will fall to Qantas management...
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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What's our choices i wonder back to the old days of near state owned air travel and car companies when everything was protected out the wazoo and risk upsetting our trading partners or let the best price win and have horrible unemployment ?

Cheap good but broke bad :)
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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If we had full employment at good rates, less people would be inclined to go for cheap shit.
It's a bit of an endless spiral, this going for the cheapest thing.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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J.D. wrote:By the way: all this to a degree academic as the bill probably won't pass the upper house.
And Abbott can conveniently blame the Greens/Labor if Qantas get in real trouble.

To me all this is a bit of smoke and mirrors. All airlines are undergoing changes and being at the end of the world means that Qantas just can't operate as efficiently as others like Emirates, Singapore do out of a centralised hub.

So they restructure, and operate with global partners.. Makes sense to me.
Whilst I agree that they should allow foreign ownership I don't think it's going to make much of a difference.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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pixelboy wrote:And Abbott can conveniently blame the Greens/Labor if Qantas get in real trouble.
Except that nobody wants to be remembered for killing off what was once a national icon. Blaming will only get them so far but I see where you're going with that.
So they restructure, and operate with global partners.. Makes sense to me.
That's why they got into bed with Emirates.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by richo »

Haven't Qantas got a pretty old fleet too? I read some where that they chose to not upgrade to newer fuel efficient planes even though the fuel cost savings would outweigh the cost of the planes .

That probably has bugger all to do with their current difficulties though.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

Post by NeilPearson »

JD posted that earlier ;)

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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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NeilPearson wrote:JD posted that earlier ;)

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Well that's good because I actually thought I may have imagined it ...
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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richo wrote:Haven't Qantas got a pretty old fleet too? I read some where that they chose to not upgrade to newer fuel efficient planes even though the fuel cost savings would outweigh the cost of the planes .

That probably has bugger all to do with their current difficulties though.
As I pointed out earlier, it has everything to do with it. Fuel costs are probably the biggest cost airlines face on a daily basis and when your competitors save around 30% per seat/mile over what you have, you can't compete.

That is why the age of the fleet is important.

Qantas had the opportunity to buy newer, more fuel-efficient B777s but turned it down three times (sounds almost biblical). That meant they were saddled with operating old, uncompetitive B747s on routes where their competitors could dictate the fare. In a market where they - Qantas - are trying to be a low-cost, budget carrier, competing against full-service airlines, that is disastrous. They compensated for it by sending all their heavy maintenance offshore and embarking on a campaign against the unions, none of which has done their image any good.
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Re: Qantas the next to go?

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I was talking to a guy yesterday that works for them and he seemed to think that losing the 5000 odd jobs is well overdue as they have around 33000 staff , He is an aircraft airframe techy or something like that and he was saying the place is a joke at times because of things like having to wait for electrical staff to unplug a harness if it was in the way of his work and nobody but the assigned people could operate their own field making productivity very ordinary.

My eldest worked for them as a baggage handler and the stories of theft and bludging were horrible but then again he got fired for doing the same low act around five times ...
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