PC2 hints and tips

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby DarrenM » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:20 pm

The extra drag happens (to what extent I don't know), but that doesn't explain the feeling of less power as well. Grooved tyres on a wet track should spin up more easily than slicks, but it doesn't. F1 wets have a larger diameter which I guess would reduce the torque, but I don't know if other series do that.

There was a wet F1 race in China a few years ago where a couple drivers moved off the drying line on the long back straight to try to defend. The passing driver stayed on the dry line and passed them more easily than with DRS.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Cursed » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:55 am

When they talk about the volume of water that the wet tyres move every second (65L https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... Tyres.html), you need to consider that 1L of water weighs 1kg. That is not an insignificant amount of energy and ultimately that energy comes out of the engine.
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:25 am

There was a lot of talk about this in the PC2 beta forums. Even some guy who was a CFD boffin got involved. His thoughts at the time were that is was possibly overdone, but not by as much as a lot of people thing. If my memory is right, he worked for Hanook, so probably not like a Pirelli expert :) So disregard GT and other haters, it is normal for the AC crowd to go full on Kunazi if there is something to criticise in another game. A bit like the Kunazis that claim the graphics in PC2 are no better than ACs. LOL
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby w00dsy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:22 am

I'm not sure if it's been fixed now but in the beta the AI didn't seem to have that same issue with drag, so they'd go sailing by as soon as you got to a straight.
The other thing to remember is you're going to be coming off most corners 20'ish kph slower so you'll naturally end up slower down the straights. But it does seem a bit exaggerated.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby GT VIRUS » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:53 am

norbs wrote:There was a lot of talk about this in the PC2 beta forums. Even some guy who was a CFD boffin got involved. His thoughts at the time were that is was possibly overdone, but not by as much as a lot of people thing. If my memory is right, he worked for Hanook, so probably not like a Pirelli expert :) So disregard GT and other haters, it is normal for the AC crowd to go full on Kunazi if there is something to criticise in another game. A bit like the Kunazis that claim the graphics in PC2 are no better than ACs. LOL


How about don't disregard my opinion as hating. In my experience in the wet, I have NEVER felt the lack of top-end experienced in PC2. Any onboard shot from any top-level series doesn't have the cars running out of puff in 5th, and any reduction in top speed I've had is from the reduced corner speed and increased braking zones. PC2 just has too much grip in the rain to begin with

But, as PC was clearly build by people who never have competed in real life, I would expect it to be defended by such people.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:02 am

GT, you speak like you are the Aussie Stig. I am curious where all this experience comes from? I see a photo of a go kart, but not many of you racing in the rain in a GT3 car.

And come on, I realise your standard mode is whinging and bitching +1, but you have had it in for PC2 since release.
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby GT VIRUS » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:42 am

norbs wrote:GT, you speak like you are the Aussie Stig. I am curious where all this experience comes from? I see a photo of a go kart, but not many of you racing in the rain in a GT3 car.

And come on, I realise your standard mode is whinging and bitching +1, but you have had it in for PC2 since release.


Formula Ford and Superkarts, so granted not a GT3 car, but still more than enough to know PC2 is fucked in the realism department.

I bitch the same as everyone else bitches, because PC2 is a letdown. AC and PC2 have had the same time since the original releases (PC2 is not different enough to PC1 to be compared as different products) to be worked on, and just look at everything AC fixed and added since the original, compared to PC2 which has many of the same bugs as PC1, some new ones, and most of the new features seem broken or incomplete.

PC2 to me, is some flashy graphics and competent handling. Fun, but not realistic. Everything feels exaggerated for effect, and they just don't behave how I expect.
AC may be flawed, but there is a reason I work with it over rFactor2. The feedback I've had from various drivers I work with is that the GT3's and Porsche Cup are damn near perfect. You then go compare them to the GT3's with hyper turn in in PC2, and you see how PC2 falls apart.

And I can bitch and moan with the best, but hey, at least I haven't been banned from every major sim racing forum out there.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby ysu » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:12 pm

norbs wrote:There was a lot of talk about this in the PC2 beta forums. Even some guy who was a CFD boffin got involved. His thoughts at the time were that is was possibly overdone, but not by as much as a lot of people thing. If my memory is right, he worked for Hanook, so probably not like a Pirelli expert :) So disregard GT and other haters, it is normal for the AC crowd to go full on Kunazi if there is something to criticise in another game. A bit like the Kunazis that claim the graphics in PC2 are no better than ACs. LOL

To be honest, Norbs, you seem to exhibit the properties you seem to criticise in others, when it comes to pc2 or AC lately.
"Disregard GT and other haters?" That's your attitude towards a discussion about realistic (or not) feeling of wet handling in pc2?

I've provided the basis of comparison, yet you talk about GT3 cars. Was it a misunderstanding? (i was talking about the entry-level ginetta, I think it's called ginetta junior series)
I'm not angry with you; enjoy whatever you enjoy.
I don't hate pc2, it's enjoyable. But the wet simulation seems a bit borked, and there are two issues with it. One is the power loss, the other is what feels just plain wrong grip/handling-wise in corners.

NOT compared to other sims; compared to reality.
(Altho if I wanted to do that I'd steer you in the direction of nkp; it had a very decent wet handling. )

All I'd like is a way to not use weather, and I'd be pretty happy with pc2 for some light fun.
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Dr. Pain » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:30 pm

:munch:
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:24 pm

GT VIRUS wrote:
norbs wrote:GT, you speak like you are the Aussie Stig. I am curious where all this experience comes from? I see a photo of a go kart, but not many of you racing in the rain in a GT3 car.

And come on, I realise your standard mode is whinging and bitching +1, but you have had it in for PC2 since release.


Formula Ford and Superkarts, so granted not a GT3 car, but still more than enough to know PC2 is fucked in the realism department.

I bitch the same as everyone else bitches, because PC2 is a letdown. AC and PC2 have had the same time since the original releases (PC2 is not different enough to PC1 to be compared as different products) to be worked on, and just look at everything AC fixed and added since the original, compared to PC2 which has many of the same bugs as PC1, some new ones, and most of the new features seem broken or incomplete.

PC2 to me, is some flashy graphics and competent handling. Fun, but not realistic. Everything feels exaggerated for effect, and they just don't behave how I expect.
AC may be flawed, but there is a reason I work with it over rFactor2. The feedback I've had from various drivers I work with is that the GT3's and Porsche Cup are damn near perfect. You then go compare them to the GT3's with hyper turn in in PC2, and you see how PC2 falls apart.

And I can bitch and moan with the best, but hey, at least I haven't been banned from every major sim racing forum out there.


Interesting you say it is a let down. Even on the FNF I wasnt there, most people wanted to play PC2. The Friday night I did ask what people wanted to play, everyone but Muppet I think said PC2. There must be a reason for this beyond it being new.

Ah, so the experience is really coming from others. Fair enough, but I expect the guy who was the stig and others in the SMS stable would argue. Hell, every single sim seems to have pros saying good things about it.

I have no idea where being banned comes into the equation, but if that makes you feel good, yes, I have been banned from the AC forums, and warned twice on the PC forums. AC I just put down to the Nazi moderator and Stefano's cum bucket Hornbuckle. PC forums was because I was abusive for calling a guy a dickhead when he told me my Thrustmaster wheel was cheap shit.
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:34 pm

ysu wrote:
norbs wrote:There was a lot of talk about this in the PC2 beta forums. Even some guy who was a CFD boffin got involved. His thoughts at the time were that is was possibly overdone, but not by as much as a lot of people thing. If my memory is right, he worked for Hanook, so probably not like a Pirelli expert :) So disregard GT and other haters, it is normal for the AC crowd to go full on Kunazi if there is something to criticise in another game. A bit like the Kunazis that claim the graphics in PC2 are no better than ACs. LOL

To be honest, Norbs, you seem to exhibit the properties you seem to criticise in others, when it comes to pc2 or AC lately.
"Disregard GT and other haters?" That's your attitude towards a discussion about realistic (or not) feeling of wet handling in pc2?

I've provided the basis of comparison, yet you talk about GT3 cars. Was it a misunderstanding? (i was talking about the entry-level ginetta, I think it's called ginetta junior series)
I'm not angry with you; enjoy whatever you enjoy.
I don't hate pc2, it's enjoyable. But the wet simulation seems a bit borked, and there are two issues with it. One is the power loss, the other is what feels just plain wrong grip/handling-wise in corners.

NOT compared to other sims; compared to reality.
(Altho if I wanted to do that I'd steer you in the direction of nkp; it had a very decent wet handling. )

All I'd like is a way to not use weather, and I'd be pretty happy with pc2 for some light fun.


In what way do I exhibit the properties of others? I am pretty sure I have said right from the get go that PC2 is way from being perfect. The inconsistencies in the different cars pisses me off. The crappy multiplayer set up drives me nuts, but I am lucky that Box and Doc have taken that out of my hands. I really dont like the head of the dev team (Ian Bell) and the way he talks to people.

It does wind me up though when we play on a Friday night and people are non stop whinging about too much grip, when we are doing laps 12-15 seconds slower than the previous race on a dry track. The grip levels may still be out, but they are not the same as in the dry.

The GT3 thing was aimed at GT Virus, not you YSU. Sorry if you thought that was a go at you.

You are in the unique postion of being able to drive the car you own in the game. So I would be more inclined to listen to your thoughts on that. But even then, it might not add up because unless you drive it on closed roads at Bathurst and on the same tyres, you arent comparing apples to apples.

And like you said, it is mainly for fun, so if people are having fun, that is the main thing.

I still think AC is great. I have 1700 hours in it. But the community is toxic. A level of elitism I havent seen since GPL days. And imho, AMS has the best physics and FFB of the 3, but I dont want to trigger the Kunazis anymore :)
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:34 pm

And there goes my fucking lunch time.

Oh, and fuck you Doc! :D
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby GT VIRUS » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:59 pm

norbs wrote:I still think AC is great. I have 1700 hours in it. But the community is toxic. A level of elitism I havent seen since GPL days. And imho, AMS has the best physics and FFB of the 3, but I dont want to trigger the Kunazis anymore :)


I'll agree with all of this. I'm actually surprised that none of the team's I've talked to use AMS, it seems that they should. I think it's just too locked down.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby norbs » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:06 pm

GT VIRUS wrote:
norbs wrote:I still think AC is great. I have 1700 hours in it. But the community is toxic. A level of elitism I havent seen since GPL days. And imho, AMS has the best physics and FFB of the 3, but I dont want to trigger the Kunazis anymore :)


I'll agree with all of this. I'm actually surprised that none of the team's I've talked to use AMS, it seems that they should. I think it's just too locked down.


Locked down as in not modable? I was wondering this a while back. It is based on rFactor? isnt that modable?
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Dr. Pain » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:10 pm

norbs wrote:And there goes my fucking lunch time.

Oh, and fuck you Doc! :D


:finger:

I even sent Muppet a text expecting an academy award winning post of fire and brimstone and not even a puff of smoke! But I know you spend your lunch time destroying everything around you, fighting with the neighbours of a fence or some shit so I can take some comfort. But damn it man give the people what they want, A SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby GT VIRUS » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:12 pm

norbs wrote:
GT VIRUS wrote:
norbs wrote:I still think AC is great. I have 1700 hours in it. But the community is toxic. A level of elitism I havent seen since GPL days. And imho, AMS has the best physics and FFB of the 3, but I dont want to trigger the Kunazis anymore :)



I'll agree with all of this. I'm actually surprised that none of the team's I've talked to use AMS, it seems that they should. I think it's just too locked down.


Locked down as in not modable? I was wondering this a while back. It is based on rFactor? isnt that modable?


It is rfactor based, but there isn't really a way to mod it officially. Plus, AC does the same job just easier.

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Dr. Pain » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:35 pm

GT VIRUS wrote:It is rfactor based, but there isn't really a way to mod it officially. Plus, AC does the same job just easier for simcade.


Fixed :arseshake:
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby DarrenM » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:52 pm

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Muppet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:06 pm

Here is my two cents.

I agree with GT in only one thing, PC2 isn't a new game, they have had plenty of time with PC1 and now PC2 dev time to sort some of their shit out and they should have.

The second thing I don't agree with is NEVER EVER FUCKING EVER will you convince me the polished TURD of a sim based on rfactor1 called AMS has the best of anything, it's the worst game in the history of sims and I couldn't wait to delete the disease of my system #stirringthepot p.s. I really do hate AMS :LOL:

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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby ysu » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:18 pm

Ah, I did think it was a go at me, Norbs. :) No worries.

And yes, we're not comparing apples-to-apples in the way the 86 is not a ginetta junior, it's merely a very similar (light, low-powered, sport, rwd) car.
But yes, I've driven it on a wet track a couple of times (both Eastern Creek & Wakefield Park) - I've only got two types of tyres, the semi-slicks & the wet-friendly contiSportContact 5's.

An intersting thing is that on a slightly wet track the semi-slick is still better. When the track starts to have serious water, it's suddenly absolute rubbish. It's quite interesting.

Anyway, that's why I thought the comparison is relevant.
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby Dr. Pain » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:33 pm

Muppet wrote:PC2 isn't a new game


How do you know, you didn't play the first one :lol:
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby markus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Muppet wrote:The second thing I don't agree with is NEVER EVER FUCKING EVER will you convince me the polished TURD of a sim based on rfactor1 called AMS has the best of anything, it's the worst game in the history of sims and I couldn't wait to delete the disease of my system #stirringthepot p.s. I really do hate AMS :LOL:


You clearly are not familiar with Geoff Crammond's GP 3 (or Gp2.1 as it should have been called).
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Re: PC2 hints and tips

Postby pixelboy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:48 pm

Hey.. GP3 was good.. its GP4 that was the disaster!

I loved those games, in fact it was my GP3 passion that lead me to eventually find ARSE!

My 50c on PC2.

<mini-rant>
It looks pretty and all but I just don't enjoy it as much as AC. I don't want uber realism, I just wanna have fun.

I had more fun on AC @ Arsewood than I think is possible on PC2.

On PC2 you have to do it their way.. on AC, you do it however the hell you like.. Stair-trucks and all!
</mini-rant>
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