Some thoughts about the upcoming AI patch ..

[geezer45]

Been thinking recently about the upcoming AI patch. It occured to me that there is no point in Scawen working on the AI until he (I have probably left some things off the list):
- makes all the driving physics updates required for S2 full
- makes all the damage physics updates required for S2 full
- makes all the sound updates required for S2 full

I have this theory because I believe it would be pointless for him to update the AI now, then do another update after updating the physics etc. It would be severe double-handling! And Scawen is the type of guy who works smart. So hopefully the next patch release will provide us with everything we could possibly want

What do you think?

[SE1Z]

huh?
theres an AI patch?

[Vilante]

Apparently that was his next project yes.

Not sure why myself, there's more important things like the crash physics and Mount Panorama

[Blowtus]

I don't see that ai logic will necessarily need updating with physics changes, and it has been an awful long time since any work was done on it... it's pretty shoddy.

That said, same goes for crash physics! FARKING FIX IT DAMNIT!!!!!

[geezer45]

I don't see that ai logic will necessarily need updating with physics changes, and it has been an awful long time since any work was done on it... it's pretty shoddy.

That said, same goes for crash physics! FARKING FIX IT DAMNIT!!!!!

I don't see how the AI wouldn't need to be updated with physics changes, but then again I'm not a programmer. Assuming the AI will use the same physics model we'll be using, surely any changes would affect the way the AI behaves! Though perhaps Scawen will find a way to make the AI so freakin smart it will adapt to whichever physics model it is driving with. Anyhoo, time shall tell

Haha yeah the crash physics are a little dodgy at times!

[Sapient]

I don't understand the desire to fix the AI at all, seems to offer so little in value to the game when other changes would add so much...much has been said about that on other forums its not really worth re-hashing here.

The biggest issue I have with speculation on upcoming patches is the expectations never meet the reality and invariably there is disappointments. This is obviously not the devs fault, its the community getting carried away with itself and expecting Scawen to do the work of 5 men to meet their unrealistic expectations (read: wishlist).
The delicious irony is by posting in this thread I have in fact done nothing more than feed the very community hype I only two short sentences ago derided, so please don't trouble yourself to point this out.

I am going to have a lie down now, I feel so conflicted

[Blowtus]

I don't see how the AI wouldn't need to be updated with physics changes, but then again I'm not a programmer. Assuming the AI will use the same physics model we'll be using, surely any changes would affect the way the AI behaves! Though perhaps Scawen will find a way to make the AI so freakin smart it will adapt to whichever physics model it is driving with. Anyhoo, time shall tell

I'm no programmer either... I guess I figured the logic would need to be higher level stuff to be able to cope with changing tyre grip, fuel load, etc anyway - ie fairly adaptive.

[Charles]

AI patch huh? Sounds good to me.

If you didn't realise, the AI is already somewhat 'adaptive'; you'll notice that it will adjust its line over many laps to improve the overall lap time. So I don't think a physics change will affect things much on the AI front.

What I would like to see is the AI going into the pits when its about to run out of fuel (instead of just stopping on the racing line) and when the car needs repairs (instead of just doing a car reset).

[Rots]

ATM AI is limited as they can not enter or leave pits (try to get AI to qualify or practice and it tells you this). Possibly the fixes are for that. Hopefully the changes also make the AI less agreesive as they currently have about as much tolerance as Russell Ingall & Mark Skaife when pissed off which each other... They could also be able to compete in endurance races as they could now refuel, not that many people would want to race AI for any length of time.

I can't see how changes to physics would mean further programming of the AI. I believe a physics change wouldn't be much different (relatively speaking) to giving the AI a wacky setup... it takes several laps for the AI to relearn its fastest way to drive the vehicle with it's current handling characteristics. That's the common ground which both physics and setup changes affect.

[SE1Z]

When the game is being sold as an 'online racing simulator' it seems, well... a bit dumb (to me at least) to even bother, at this point, with the AI....

[Rots]

I guess it's no different to games like BF2 including AI as well... that seems dumb too as BF2 doesn't have real single player mode.

[Exar Kun]

If they were able to get the AI working well (speed, pitstops etc) and also include an offline championship mode then it would surely boost sales of the game. I pretty much don't play LFS because I only race offline. I like to be able to choose when and where I'm going to race and people usually just aren't around when I want to play. Same would go for nkPro (especially since the online bit doesn't work anyway!). I know there are other things that need to be focussed on and I guess it's just a question of where the dev's priorities currently lie.

[ysu]

If they were able to get the AI working well (speed, pitstops etc) and also include an offline championship mode then it would surely boost sales of the game. I pretty much don't play LFS because I only race offline. I like to be able to choose when and where I'm going to race and people usually just aren't around when I want to play. Same would go for nkPro (especially since the online bit doesn't work anyway!). I know there are other things that need to be focussed on and I guess it's just a question of where the dev's priorities currently lie.

That's interesting, for a long time now I cannot really get myself to race offline anymore. I just can't. I somehow find it boring, way-way boring compared to a good online fun meeting
I do a few hotlaps sometimes offline or online, it does not matter, but racing the AI does not work for me. Maybe with a really good AI it'd be better...

But otherwise I think those few updates about pit and such, as others mentioned would really help - besides if I remember AI still simply drives into/through you, right? That's not good.

The biggest (only?) competition, - isi-based games - have a playable AI. Altho it's not using physics engine, which is disgusting, still lots of people race this AI for some reason(!?!).

If all those people would be online, the servers were full all the time, so maybe removing the AI would be the best f@ken thing ever. Hm...

[geezer45]

I think the main reason Scawen is focusing on the AI at this point is because the release of S2 full is surely near and it would look bad if the devs released a full product where one of the implemented features is embarrassingly incomplete.

The physics (especially the crash physics) will need to be worked on too before S2 full is released, so to me it makes sense that Scawen should do all of this right now without test patch interruption. That way he can work solidly on getting us to S2 full

[Exar Kun]

If they were able to get the AI working well (speed, pitstops etc) and also include an offline championship mode then it would surely boost sales of the game. I pretty much don't play LFS because I only race offline. I like to be able to choose when and where I'm going to race and people usually just aren't around when I want to play. Same would go for nkPro (especially since the online bit doesn't work anyway!). I know there are other things that need to be focussed on and I guess it's just a question of where the dev's priorities currently lie.

That's interesting, for a long time now I cannot really get myself to race offline anymore. I just can't. I somehow find it boring, way-way boring compared to a good online fun meeting
I do a few hotlaps sometimes offline or online, it does not matter, but racing the AI does not work for me. Maybe with a really good AI it'd be better...

But otherwise I think those few updates about pit and such, as others mentioned would really help - besides if I remember AI still simply drives into/through you, right? That's not good.

The biggest (only?) competition, - isi-based games - have a playable AI. Altho it's not using physics engine, which is disgusting, still lots of people race this AI for some reason(!?!).

If all those people would be online, the servers were full all the time, so maybe removing the AI would be the best f@ken thing ever. Hm...

But I can't race against a 50 car field at Spa with a full day night cycle and variable weather online...

[Unforgiven]

I beleive the AI and the physics are getting updated (*God Voice*) AT THE SAME TIME (*/God Voice*). Scawen has said that this was the way it was gonna happen many times I think the order was uI, Multiplayer, Physical. It is totally logical to do the AI at this stage of the Develpment because then there wont be hurdles when they find that the AI they're designing has conflicts with the physics changes. So build the AI around the new physics and vice versa. Oh and its also got something to do with the new collision detection aswell.

Just remember we probably wont get test patches for this either because It is a totally incompatible patch, Physically.

[geezer45]

It is totally logical to do the AI at this stage of the Develpment because then there wont be hurdles when they find that the AI they're designing has conflicts with the physics changes. So build the AI around the new physics and vice versa. Oh and its also got something to do with the new collision detection aswell.

Amen!

Just remember we probably wont get test patches for this either because It is a totally incompatible patch, Physically.

I reckon we may get this as a test patch, just as we did with the non-compatible multiplayer patches. As with these, it's just a matter of having two versions of LFS on your PC at the same time