flash photography (advice needed)

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:43 pm

Once again, back to the font of knowledge.

I have been asked by a club (as a volunteer) to take some photos of an awards cerermony (this saturday night)

Will mainly be maybe two people shaking hands, and maybe a few of a group of say about 15 people huddled together and looking at me

Restriction:

Is indoors

Camera Nikon d7000 using the BUILT IN FLASH ONLY

I'm not inclined to spend multi hundreds to buy a half decent flash between now and then, (as i will "never need it") ##cough###

So whats the best go?

High ISO (800 or more if not grainy)

Speed down to say 1/50????

Use the inbuilt flash???

HELP guys

PS i really do appreciate and use the advice i get from this site.

Post by **norbs** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:45 pm

Got a fast lens?

How close will you be to the people in the photo?

What will the lights be like there?

Most of these were taken at ISO 800 at f/1.8 in a restaraunt in Melbourne. No flash by the way!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/norbograph ... 409550241/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speed · Post by **Speed** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:33 pm

Yep 1.8 wil be ok for 2 people shaking hands but for photographing 15 people you'll want to keep an eye on your depth of field. Here's a good calculator http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know about the noise on a d7000 but for record shots I'd be prepared to go higher iso than even 800. I often have to shoot at 4000 iso with my 5D mkii & while its not what I like to do, the results are definitely acceptable.

DexterPunk · Post by **DexterPunk** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:36 pm

Yep, I concur with the Norbsta... Don't use on camera flash. It should only ever be used as a fill flash... If the camera allows you to power it down then you could do that, but generally steer clear. Flash on axis as a key light is a major no-no... It washes out colour and kills any depth to the image. If I ever use on camera flash, it would be with my speedlite and bounced off a wall or the ceiling. Better your images have a bit of noise than what the result of on camera flash would give. Use it as a very last resort.

Post by **norbs** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:30 pm

DexterPunk wrote:Yep, I concur with the Norbsta... Don't use on camera flash. It should only ever be used as a fill flash... If the camera allows you to power it down then you could do that, but generally steer clear. Flash on axis as a key light is a major no-no... It washes out colour and kills any depth to the image. If I ever use on camera flash, it would be with my speedlite and bounced off a wall or the ceiling. Better your images have a bit of noise than what the result of on camera flash would give. Use it as a very last resort.

Best thing about the 5D, no flash built in.

DexterPunk · Post by **DexterPunk** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:11 pm

I agree! Unless it was sophisticated enough to pair up with an external flash and have some manual controls. Something as simple as that, with the built in IR sensor would probably be enough to convince me to get the 5D3. I doubt it will happen though... for what ever reason, Canon wants people using the IR hotshoe sensor instead of building into the camera. It's one area Nikon and Pentax do a better job. I imagine they have their reasons for not doing it though.

Speed · Post by **Speed** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:11 pm

Best if you could borrow a flash Gougoodthing and as Dex says bounce it off the ceiling. Preferably try to not use too wide a lens as the distortion looks horrible, on people especially. I always try to stay at more than 50mm on full frame which is around 35 on a 1.5 crop. If you really need to get closer & use a wider lens, try to point the flash back if you can, to lessen the shadows under the eyebrows. I'd reckon you'd want a minimum of f8 for a group shot, to be safe. The good thing about using a SB800 or SB900, if you can borrow one, is that you can you TTL for metering which will take care of a lot of the work.

DexterPunk · Post by **DexterPunk** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:27 pm

50mm is still 50mm on a crop sensor.. the distortions you get on a wider lens aren't lost on a smaller sensor... so what you said about using wider angle is quite true, but the same rule applies to a crop sensor camera. 35mm may have a similar field of view as a 50mm on a full frame, but the lens characteristics don't change (apart from perhaps looking less severe because it's more noticeable around the edges) ...Did that makes sense?

Long story short... 50mm lens is a 50mm lens regardless how much you crop in.

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Glad i asked the question, and as allways cheers for the responses.

Will read thru them a few times and try a few things and see how i go!

Cheers heaps, all.

Speed · Post by **Speed** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:09 pm

DexterPunk wrote: Long story short... 50mm lens is a 50mm lens regardless how much you crop in.

Thanks, that makes sense. I haven't used a crop sensor camera for ages so I only noticed the distortion since then.
Might make it difficult shooting a group of 15 to get far enough back using a 50mm on a D7000.

Post by **norbs** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:16 pm

DexterPunk wrote:50mm is still 50mm on a crop sensor.. the distortions you get on a wider lens aren't lost on a smaller sensor... so what you said about using wider angle is quite true, but the same rule applies to a crop sensor camera. 35mm may have a similar field of view as a 50mm on a full frame, but the lens characteristics don't change (apart from perhaps looking less severe because it's more noticeable around the edges) ...Did that makes sense?

Long story short... 50mm lens is a 50mm lens regardless how much you crop in.

You haven't seen all the BS over at places like OCAU above crop being better because it gives you massive zoom?

DexterPunk · Post by **DexterPunk** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:29 pm

I think i'd have an aneurysm...

Like I nearly did with a customer the other day who wanted to return a mouse and said it wasn't working... Plugged it into a computer..

"Here you go, seems to be fine..."
"Well it doesn't work with MY computer! I want it exchanged!"
"Ummm well you're going to have the same issue as it's probably you're computer not the mouse."
"NO THE PEOPLE AT DICK SMITH TESTED IT AND SAID IT WAS FAULTY!"
"well it's working, here, do you want a go?"
"NO! I want a good quality one! This one doesn't work."
"It's working fine, look."
"Well it doesn't work on MY computer!"

...and around we went again. It was a lot more long winded than that, and I started to get pretty snappy at her lol... She ended up getting banned from the store, it's not the first time it's happened and she's rude as fuck. I felt like those cartoons characters you see when they turn all red with steam coming out their ears.

Totally off topic... She's still doing my head in days later.

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:24 pm

Mixed results

The footy club is pleased with the results (thats the main thing) and was well aware that they wouldn't be professional when they asked me to do them.

So are the people in the photos!

Better then nothing....

PS teh lighting was REALLY poor. Was on a stage in a dimmed room.

This one with a flash

(I spent about 2 seconds (max) retouching the photo)

Simon Hele by FlashGordon Photography, on Flickr

No flash

Glenelg FC Hall of Fame 2011 038 by FlashGordon Photography, on Flickr

No flash

Glenelg FC Hall of Fame 2011 026 by FlashGordon Photography, on Flickr

Cheers for your help guys.

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:51 am

That first image with the flash really flattens out the picture.

I went to a wedding in February this year, the photographer they hired was a complete knob. Although he used a proper flash he never bounced the light, always had it pointed directly at the people he was photographing using one of those diffuser caps over the top of it. Meanwhile I was using my budget nifty fifty and was taking photos in low light at f/1.8 ISO 800 and rarely used my Nissin flash. If I did, it was bounced off the ceiling.

Speed · Post by **Speed** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:11 am

Good job, event photography can cause anxiety.

I think in the first shot your flash is a bit too strong & in the second shot the guy is standing directly under a light causing the harsh shadows under his brows. You probably couldn't ask but if he took a step backwards the shot could have been improved.

DexterPunk · Post by **DexterPunk** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:10 pm

Rots wrote:using one of those diffuser caps over the top of it.

That's one of my pet hates right there. Those 'diffusers' do nothing but cut down the intensity. May as well take it off, power the flash down a bit and save some battery life.

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:26 pm

Speed wrote:Good job, event photography can cause anxiety.

I think in the first shot your flash is a bit too strong & in the second shot the guy is standing directly under a light causing the harsh shadows under his brows. You probably couldn't ask but if he took a step backwards the shot could have been improved.

Cheers for the feedback guys. I am well aware that the photos are far from perfect.

It was pretty anxious, now you mention it. Never done anything like this before, and its a bit daunting as a (Very) amatuer photographer to be directing ex AFL/SANFL stars (including an AFL premiership player and an AFL Hall of Famer!) where to stand. While i do know these people a bit, it was a celebration of them night and the photos were just a very small momento, and i was very concious to be in and out as quick as I could.

Was keen not to get in the way during the speeches, so bobbed up and down and only took a limited number of snaps then stood at the side.

With the "presentation" type shots, the i took 3 or 4 with no flash and one or two with flash as a worst case scenario. Didnt even cross my mind to power it down

The lower two, (above) the speakers were standing at a podium on a stage, i was on a lower level about 4 - 5 metres away. I like the way they have turned out.

Obviously a few didnt work at all

Glenelg FC Hall of Fame 2011 099 by FlashGordon Photography, on Flickr

Glenelg FC Hall of Fame 2011 085 by FlashGordon Photography, on Flickr

A.R.S.E.