One tough mother

[Dr. Pain]

P-47. Designed by two Russians and one hell of a tough mother. I like Spitfires a lot but if I went to war I'd hope I was in this.


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Although dramatised for TV, you get the point.

[J.D.]

Just don't rely on the Wikipedia entry on the P-47. It's hopelessly inaccurate.

[wobblysauce]

The 3 story's in the show are good but, there are others in all models that have the same.

[Dr. Pain]

What's wrong with the Wiki on it? I've only just looked at it after you mentioned it JD but haven't picked through it.

[smithcorp]

I liked the comment of a British pilot, that P47 pilots could run around inside the fuselage to avoid flak! They are big buggers!

[J.D.]

It was tough.
It was very heavily armed.
It was fast.
It was also ground hungry. It climbed like a bubble in treacle.

It was a very good fighter but even after the revisions, its climb rate was only average.

[Dr. Pain]

You had to do a S turn to climb but really that is it's only fault. I remember an RAAF pilot telling me that they were on ferry flight with some Spitfires to New Guinea and had to stop at a P-47 field. One of the Spits had to change a tyre as they had a habit of crabbing with the narrow undercarriage so the US mechanics went to grab the jacks used to lift the P-47 but in mean time 5 of the RAAF pilots lifted the wing of the Spit with their backs while one changed the tyre. The Americans were amazed when they saw this as you got no hope of doing that with a Jug.

It's a big bruiser but for me it comes at a time of really interesting and exciting air frames. So many good planes were about during that time. My granddad was in the RAAF during WWII and he fuelled my interest.

[J.D.]

Assuming I was flying for "the good guys", I guess a Spitfire XIVe would be an excellent choice. Great climb performance, good at all altitudes, legendary fantastic agility, fast and relatively easy to fly.

Probably not as robust as the Jug though.

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Since all WWII aircraft (barring say the Fiat CR-42, Gladiator and Polikarpov I-16) were energy fighters, the Jug's dive performance and hitting power would have been very important.

[Dr. Pain]

For pure flying a lot of Spitfire pilots say the Mk. V was the best and that by Mk. XIV the lady was now a beast. A tricky plane to fly but they are my favourite.

[Exar Kun]

For pure flying a lot of Spitfire pilots say the Mk. V was the best and that by Mk. XIV the lady was now a beast. A tricky plane to fly but they are my favourite.

Yep, I've read the same. Have a couple of great books on the Spitfire that concentrate more on pilot experiences with it than tech specs. Even by the Mk IX the lightness in the controls was starting to go. By the time they got to the clipped wing models it really had lost its sparkle as a lovely handling machine that was simply a joy to fly.

[J.D.]

Even by the Mk IX the lightness in the controls was starting to go.

That was a function of speed.

By the time they got to the clipped wing models it really had lost its sparkle as a lovely handling machine that was simply a joy to fly.

Yet ironically, the Spit reached its zenith with the Griffon powered models, maybe not in terms of "recreational" flying but as a combat machine.

Not bad considering what had been done to it.

One notable point about the Jug was the engine. The P&W R2800 Twin Wasp has been described by no less an authority than the late Bill Green, as the finest piston engine of WWII. It powered the P-47, the Corsair and particularly the Hellcat*. On several occasions it got the machine home with multiple cylinders shot away. It might have been running rough but it was still running. It also powered the B-26 Marauder.

*I mention this because of the total US Navy kills in the Pacific, no less than 70% were achieved by F6F Hellcats. And that was another tough Mother:

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[Exar Kun]

Even by the Mk IX the lightness in the controls was starting to go.

That was a function of speed.

More likely wing loading I'd imagine. The armour was getting beefed up quite a bit by then and there were those cannons in the wings too.

By the time they got to the clipped wing models it really had lost its sparkle as a lovely handling machine that was simply a joy to fly.

Yet ironically, the Spit reached its zenith with the Griffon powered models, maybe not in terms of "recreational" flying but as a combat machine.

Yep. It's a little bit analogous to cars that are light and simple and fun to drive - say a Lotus Elise - compared to a supercar that may be devastatingly quick but not as tactile an experience.

P-47 was never one of my favourites. In fact, I think I just preferred the English and German solutions over most stuff that the yanks came out with. Totally subjective really. Odd because I love the A-10 and it was a spiritual successor to the P-47 (in name as well as function!).

[J.D.]

More likely wing loading I'd imagine.

That would affect agility but control weight would be more affected by speed. Bernoulli's Theorem says that lift varies with area, speed and density. That means that if you increase speed, you increase lift and consequently the amount of effort required to move the controls. The higher weights would have had more effect on agility, which is a different issue. Sure the response times would be longer but control weights would probably not suffer much.

By the time they got to the clipped wing models it really had lost its sparkle as a lovely handling machine that was simply a joy to fly.

The clipped wing was introduced to improve handling. It was used for low altitude where the Spit's roll rate was inferior to the Focke-Wulf 190, making it less manoeuvrable. It was used on the low altitude specialists; the MkVc, the MkXII and some versions of the MkXIV.

Capt. Eric Brown still reckons the MkXIV was the best of the Spits and he flew virtually all of them.

P-47 was never one of my favourites. In fact, I think I just preferred the English and German solutions over most stuff that the yanks came out with.

I agree. I just have a soft spot for the Hellcat. I do think the Thud was a good machine though and it had the speed and strength to make it a good fighter.

[Exar Kun]

It's obviously a subjective thing but Johnnie Johnson thought the mkIX was the best and, to paraphrase, 'the mkXIV was a fine machine but no longer a Spitfire'.

[J.D.]

If I was going to pick an Axis machine...

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There are new build aircraft with Jumo 213 power eggs dug up under an airfield a few years ago!

[Exar Kun]

Totally agree there. Dora 9 and Ta152 were just amazing aircraft.

[Dr. Pain]

TA 152's were wasted in the end being put on field defence for ME-262's. But at that stage it really wasn't going to matter. Kurt Tanks first run in a TA 152 is a good read, leaving those Mustangs behind when he cranked her up.

Watching film of battles in the Pacific one can get a good idea of what a P-47 attack would be like by watching Corsairs in action. Another great plane.