New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

[ysu]

Is the manual a 6? Just curious

The manual is a 6 speed box, yes. It would be nice if you were living on the cental coast and came over occasionally. You could prop up my total lack of mechanical experience.

[c.j]

Nice, you are going to have fun in that car. I am loving the one make series. Been trying to convince a mate of mine to buy one for me to have a season in. He is exceptionally well off and I do a lot of work on his E-Type Jag.

That said YSU, my mechanical knowledge is limited. I mainly do the electrics, electronics and air con stuff. Bikes I understand, car's I find overly complicated. But ask away if you get stuck, I have a decent amount of reference material to delve in to if you need some help. One of the benefits of the Army paying me to do my trade outside.

[ysu]

You could just buy one - I'm sure you can find a GT manual around $25k - and have fun at the track days yourself.

That Army bunch is a very good business on the long run, it'd seem. Well, if you survive, that is.

[c.j]

I have thought about it, actually I wanted an STI hatch. But I have three kids under 10 and it would impossible to fit them and all the baggage in the car when we head out on weekend etc. That's why I bought the xtrail. Sorry to OT.

So when is the first track day? Sarsi has it covered in Darwin, one of the best driver tracks in Aus. What is local to you Ysu?

[ysu]

I'm going to visit Wakefield Park on the 22nd, then Eastern Creek on the 9th next mo.

We've two cars exactly for the reasons you listed

[c.j]

Wakefield Park? awesome! That is where I learnt to drive. One of my Dad's mates was a driver instructor in the nsw police force and he took me there. Slippery but, well that was almost 20 years ago lol. Have fun, from what I remember if you went off there, and I did a few times in an MR2, the car filled with dust! So take an air compressor and blow gun not just for your tyres

[Sarsippius]

Well I think I've resigned myself to no Turbo kit. I have some inheritance coming which was really the only reason I was able to afford the car in the first place, the kit will just eat even more into that when we're looking at putting together a deposit for an eventual house purchase. As much as I'd love it I just can't justify it.

However some money has just come through and as a bit of a consolation I'm going to pull the trigger on the MCA Red coilovers I was also planning on and then probably just leave it at that as far as mods go, except for some brake pads and tyres when they need replacing.

The insurance is also due and the premium with AAMI has gone up about $400, so I got Shannons to quote and they're back at what I was paying for the same agreed value and lower excess so will probably make the switch. I'm not sure how reliable this site is but it seems every insurer is either great or terrible depending on the circumstance so I figure I'm probably not losing much by making the switch.
http://www.productreview.com.au/c/car-insurance.html

I thought Shannons would have a track day option, they used to do but not anymore. Will have to find someone who will insure one off track days before hitting the track.

[ysu]

Looksie here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102760

I still can't completely decide. Going back & forth. But it's long term anyway. NA for now. Header & oft, probably.

My biggest headache is where to get some lightweight track wheels.

[Sarsippius]

Thanks for that, the only actual company mentioned in there is for Famous Insurance and they seem ok, pretty similar to Shannons, premiums seem to be about the same or slightly more expensive (they wouldn't go quite as high on agreed value), excess is higher too. They have one off cover for CAMS sanctioned track days, about $100 for the day up to the value of $10k in repairs.

[ysu]

And thanks for looking up the details
I'm not sure if it's worth it - I don't know the accident rate on a track day, they supposed to be pretty safely conducted, I read somewhere the rate is far lower than the daily driving. And I'm not sure if all/most are cams sanctioned or not. Also; if you have one, it'll probably be a write-off won't it?

What's their excess, do you remember?

[Sarsippius]

They were $650 for excess vs Shannons which is $400, premium was $1,400 for $30k value, Shannons $1,450 for $34k value (AAMI $1,850 for $34k). I spoke to the guy for a while and he said most track day accidents are relatively minor, hence the $10k coverage works out well. I guess you'd have to do something pretty bad or get unlucky to totally write off the car.
I did find a site offering track day insurance but it seemed to go the opposite direction, full coverage up to something like $250k but the excess was $5k. I figure this may be more the norm but for minor damage you're basically paying out of your own pocket.

I need to check if the track days here are CAMS sanctioned, if they are then I might just go with Famous. However I'm starting to wonder now, looking at $200 already for insurance and track fees but you can do a V8 Experience, 6 laps for $350, maybe that's a better option without risking the pride and joy

[ysu]

With insurance my usual direction is not to cover for small things - they're often very expensive to cover, and does not happen too often - but aim for anything big. So if track day accidents are minor (what could that be I wonder?) then I'll just not bother I think - and hope I won't roll it, or put it into a wall at speed

Good finds, anyway, thanks for sharing!

by the way, I've got some goodies here. Only the front pads have arrived, yet.

[Sarsippius]

I imagine most track day accidents are either a spin without hitting anything or a shunt off a wall at moderate to low speed which $10k may be enough to cover the repairs? The Lap Sprint days here at Hidden Valley are CAMS sanctioned so I think I'll go with Famous and get the track day coverage just in case.

How did you get onto those brake pads and where did you buy them from? Looks like your going for more performance than what I'm looking at. I'm planning to buy Winmax W2 for the front and W1 for the rear, they're both more street than track but the W2 on front should handle a track day, just

I pretty much decided not to bother with a drop in filter, it seemed questionable whether there would be any benefit at all vs a potential worse filtering ability & Darwin can be quite a dusty place.

[ysu]

Pads are sold by BrakesDirect:
Front & Rear
It seems these pads are pretty decent performers, but still usable on the street. (i.e. not overy noisy or dusty)

Re accidents, there are all kinds it seems, I've asked around The experiences differ widely. A lot of ppl say there are barely any, some say they see one or two wrecks every time they're out.
God knows. I'll take it easy on the 1st one, anyway, ask around on the track, etc, and see where it takes me.

But from what I'm reading, most say indeed it's mostly small(ish) stuff, write-offs are fewer.

[Sarsippius]

I found some discussion on QFM, they seem to be well regarded but from recent posts it seems they may have changed something and are now a bit hit and miss, hard to know really. The Winmax are significantly more expensive but whether that means they're a better pad I don't know.

Edit: This is a good post on the Winmax, the different compounds and applications (I know you're sorted for pads already but it's interesting still)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68486

[VTRacing]

I found some discussion on QFM, they seem to be well regarded but from recent posts it seems they may have changed something and are now a bit hit and miss, hard to know really. The Winmax are significantly more expensive but whether that means they're a better pad I don't know.

We used Winmax pads in the rally car (and in the STi that we use for track sprints). I thought they were maybe a little better than what we'd used previously (Project Mu). Yes, they're expensive, but equivalent to the other proper race pads.

It really depends how often you're putting the car on track. A proper race pad is a waste of money if you're driving on the road most of the time and only doing a few track days per year.

I haven't used QFM pads but I know the owner of Brakes Direct. If you want a second opinion on brake pads for track days contact Marty Beckton at Motorsport Brakes. http://www.motorsportbrakes.com.au/

[ysu]

My next choice after the QFM (cheap, but should be a good starter pad) is the Ferodo DS2500, they're a bit more costly $260/$210 front/back.
compfriction.com.au sells them in Australia.

[Sarsippius]

Yeah I actually had spoken to Marty already, they're the distributor for Winmax (you probably know this VT). He suggested W3 front and that you could go with just W2 at the rear but after discussing it a bit, the fact it's a daily driver (wife drives it more than I do) with 1 or max 2 track days a year the W2's would be a better choice and still do the trick.

I'm happier sticking with non metallic pads, less dust and potential iron contamination on the painted rims. I plan to be pretty conservative on the track and won't push the braking too much although Hidden Valley is known as being tough on brakes.

It seems pretty simple at first, take the car to the track but the costs start adding up pretty quick even when being conservative

$70 - CAMS License
$35 - NAMSC Membership
$110 - Track day fees
$100 - Insurance
$400 - Brake Pads
$80 - Brake Fluid

The pads bump that up and will last assuming I treat them well but that's still a good $400 a pop.

[ysu]

Don't do staggered pads, mate.
I've read that very nasty problems can arise from that. Staggered tyres are similarly bad idea.
These mess with the car's electronic systems, and unless you do the pedal dance (some say even then) you can end up in really bad situations on the track.
Really bad meaning the car just locks up in the middle of a high-speed bumpy corner during trail braking. And I mean locks up all fours (some emergency procedure, apparently).

[ysu]

by the way it's a cheap track day for $110 around here even the cheap ones are over double that.
I don't do maths, but I have to add accommodation to that, and 6hrs of highway driving fuel - oh and the track day fuel, too!
Just do yourself a favour and enjoy it instead of calculating crap

[VTRacing]

Don't do staggered pads, mate.
I've read that very nasty problems can arise from that. Staggered tyres are similarly bad idea.
These mess with the car's electronic systems, and unless you do the pedal dance (some say even then) you can end up in really bad situations on the track.
Really bad meaning the car just locks up in the middle of a high-speed bumpy corner during trail braking. And I mean locks up all fours (some emergency procedure, apparently).

That sounds really odd. Got a source on that?

I wouldn't have thought a difference in pad friction front and rear would be sufficient to mess with the electronics.

[Pinger$]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494
Random source... but was interested. No idea about the legitimacy of the guys claims.

[Sarsippius]

The guy is pretty well regarded and posts a lot of good info. Thanks for the heads up though, I had pretty much figured I'd go for W2's front and rear, what's $30 but good to know now in case I changed my mind.

[ysu]

Yeah csg mike is a major player. It's a good source. Altho I have read others saying the same.

Sorry I could not respond earlier...but I WAS ON THE TRACK ALL DAY

Man it was fun! All stock the car held up damn well. Especially in the early wet laps. Everyone was spinning everywhere but this car has saved my ass a few times.

Altho by the end of the day the brakes got a bit mushy. I'll need to change the fluid - to a performance one this time. I also had some good chats with Chris Reeves, an 86 racer - great guy! - who has no less than 5 toyota 86'es

[Sarsippius]

Cool, I'm starting to look forward to my chance but it's still four months away

What was the format like, 10-15 minute runs with some cool down in between? I'm a little bit concerned about hot oil temps, particularly up in the heat here but that's sort of how they run the day up here, warm up lap, 3-4 hot laps then a cool down lap and then probably 30 minutes before the next run.

How did the stock tyres hold up? I'm assuming with the camber they should have been ok.

I read it somewhere that when the stock brake pads seem to fade it's actually not really fade but pad material starting to degrade. Not sure if that's what was happening with yours but probably best to get the new ones in asap.

Anyway glad to hear it all went well