iPhone Vs Android/Droid

[DexterPunk]

just wondering what you guys think....

surely Android/Droid phones are going to be great... partially open source etc.. with a similar 'app store' type feature. Google usually makes awesome stuff, and i hear that they are making navigation software that will rival the likes of Tomtom, Mio etc... I can only guess this will be free on Google OS phones, and possibly an app for iPhones?

Can anything rival an iPhone? iPhone does have its short comings. without a jailbreak, you cant bluetooth file transfer, you cant use it as removable storage, you cant run apps in the background.... just to name the major ones. But iPhones it seems have been out long enough that they have embedded themselves into the mainstream, and with a massive app store, they do have a hell of a lot of benefits. Im sure these new additions will rival the iPhone in features, but what about the simple things that you notice when living with an iPhone that it does incredibly well? My question really is... can something knock it off its perch? Even if it is superior?

[Montey]

I think there are two contributing factors on this question: Software Engineering vs Hardware Engineering.

On the Software Engineering front I think there is no doubt that the Android phone OS will come to rule the roost. However it will not be until version 2.X or 3.X that it really gets to be a solid bit of code, after enough users have had it long enough to find all the bugs and improvements. At the moment Android is at the equivalent stage that Linux was when it was version 1.0 or 2.0. i.e. Showing a lot of promise, but not there yet.

On the Hardware Engineering front, I don't think there is anyone who builds a platform better than Apple. I think their engineering is bloody fantastic, so much so that I am just about to order 6 iPhones for my engineers.

[nutty]

Im really interesting in this, I love gadget wars.

To really analise the battle you need to look at the American market, its the key.
The iPhone is selling gangbusters, but its limitation is that its exclusive to AT&T, Imagine if it was released only to Vodaphone in Australia, would you change providers for a phone? what if the network your changing to is sub par?

Thats why this market is getting soo much more competitive, manufactures can rake in money with single carrier deals, Palm signed to Sprint, TMobile has Motorolla and AT&T has Apple, Carriers want the best phones so people will move to there network for it.

Google has attacked it quite differently, and personally I think google did the right thing. First they didn't try and make a iPhone clone like the Palm, they took the iPhone and moved its target away from the everyday people, to a more tech savvy market.. but most of all.. its offering a cheap operating system, so rather then being stuck to Apple or Palm for your specific device you can choose between Motorolla/Nokia/HTC/Samsung ect.. ect.. to get your android.

All and all, I can really see the Android os becoming just as large as the iPhone, I think people want choice and the iPhone doesn't offer that (no keyboard, specific carriers, appstore problems and limitations) combine that with its limitations as you mentioned and the fact you will see basically all the samsung/motorolla/nokia phones being andoid, the developers for the iphone applications, will slowly start to move over to android..

That being said, being a Blackberry user and a server administrator, the Blackberry/Bes owns the workplace market and nether of the phones seem to understand whats needed to take market share away from the crackberry.

[nutty]

I think there are two contributing factors on this question: Software Engineering vs Hardware Engineering.

On the Software Engineering front I think there is no doubt that the Android phone OS will come to rule the roost. However it will not be until version 2.X or 3.X that it really gets to be a solid bit of code, after enough users have had it long enough to find all the bugs and improvements. At the moment Android is at the equivalent stage that Linux was when it was version 1.0 or 2.0. i.e. Showing a lot of promise, but not there yet.

On the Hardware Engineering front, I don't think there is anyone who builds a platform better than Apple. I think their engineering is bloody fantastic, so much so that I am just about to order 6 iPhones for my engineers.

Valid point at this stage.
The iPhone is well infront in terms of hardware (tho, with the emails I go through in a day, I perfer a physical keyboard.. but thats irrelevent now)

My question is do you think once Nokia/Motorolla/HTC/Samsung ect. start throwing hardware at it that apple will be the leaders? The Motorolla Droid looks sleek and has had some great reviews, and thats only the first of the new Droid 2.0 phones.

[DexterPunk]

some interesting views....

personally, im not too sure about the keyboard thing?? an iphone has one, you tilt it, you press the screen, same as my old blackjack with a qwerty keypad. But thats another discussion.

with all thats mentioned... will all this be enough to actually rival iphone? like the ipod, there were alternatives that in most ways were superior... yet they failed in the face of apple. I always wondered why that was, and just assumed it to be people seduced my media, and wanting an accessory that was 'cool'. I have a diploma in engineering computer systems, so im not hopeless with PC gear etc... but im slowly being drawn to apple. I think its just out of lazyness, i cant be stuffed anymore tweaking or optimising. The iPhone is probably the best thing ive ever bought, not to say that anyone else couldnt produce something as good, but when i was looking at a new phone, there was nothing even close to it... and thats in the same price range, let alone what it could do. I think Montey is right, the iphone hardware is outstanding... the gaming capabilities alone are now rivaling PSP (yet to see an iphone game that truely makes use of the 3Gs processor and OpenGL graphics processor). I think i bought a new phone at the right time, iPhone has sorted out most of the issues plagueing it in the early days, and i have a 2 year contract, so by the time its up, i think the android/droid market will be properly up and running, and whatever gen iphone there is against it, i can make a descision then about what the best option is. What im skeptical about, is that the android market will have the range of apps etc iphone does. Like the ipod, i cant see iphone being taken down unless these phones are noticably better, not just a bit.

We have truely entered a new era.... there is always going to be those that want a phone for a phone.. and no more. But iPhones are a new era in portable multimedia, that in this point in time is not really rivaled. I honestly hope google really push apple hard... its only going to benefit us all more.

[Robbo]

I tend to agree with Dex about the iPhone. I've always just had mobiles that were pretty good but the iPhone to me is a revolution. I now don't go anywhere without it and if I happen to put it down somewhere, I almost go into a panic. It is extremely important to my business. The Android will have to be something very special but considering that my iPhone is also my iPod, I can't see it being knocked off in the near future.

Just off topic on the Jailbreak thing, I 'jailbroke' my phone and found it to be lethargic and unreliable. Because I didn't want to become an iPhone propellorhead to get it reliable, I just restored. The novelty wore off pretty quick.

[CLP]

I grabbed an HTC Hero from a UK supplier (~$650 AU delivered) a few weeks ago, and i'm pretty impressed so far. I've not used an iphone in anger, so i don't really have anything to compare against, save for a few minutes messing with a workmates iphone.

the onscreen keyboard is ok as far as i'm concerned, though apparently the iphone version is better.. no complaints from me though.
the trackball is a neat inclusion.. not used all the time, but can be handy.

main gripe tends to be that you can get a bit of lag when scolling screens etc I'm sure there's ways to limit that, but i'm still discovering all the things it can do. and maybe the next software update will address some of these things too

on the upside, i don't think any Aus carrier is offering the Hero at the moment, so, at least for a while, in a sea of iphones, i have something that not many others have

Cheers,
CLP

[DexterPunk]

yeah, thats one of the crap things about an iphone... every man and his dog has one these days.


An iPhone is like a penis... Fun to play with by yourself, but rude to whip out in front of friends. Its also not special when half the population has one.

[Montey]

An iPhone is like a penis... Fun to play with by yourself, but rude to whip out in front of friends. Its also not special when half the population has one.

You obviously don't have a big enough penis....


.... or iPhone.

[AstrO]

I was thinking about getting something with Android 2 when they come out. But as I don't really use many Google services, I don't think I'll get that much out of it. Windows Mobile seems like it's more promising for my sort of integration, but 6.5 just plain sucks and who knows what 7 will be like. What I really want is something like my old Nokia 1100, basic talk and text with great battery life and very reliable (both in terms of hardware and software). Pity it doesn't work with 3.

[wabbit]

They saw a consumer market that could be greatly improved and the killer line, vertical integration. RIM and Apple do this so, so well. To beat the handset you need to better the software, hardware and online services. The fruit company has being doing this for 30+ years.

The iPhone is the new iPod, which should have been Sony's. They owned the market with the Walkman & Discman, but couldn't get the software and required online services correct. Nokia had the software, has a bucket load of hardware and in '06 was working with digital music companies, yet couldn't make an "iPhone".

Its funny from a market share view point, the exact opposite works best for consumer computing. This is where I like Montey see Android having more market share in the end. Google are the new Microsoft using horizontal integration, the difference is Google use open standards. Android would also greatly benefit from simple marketing, in different regions its called something different and then from different branding. In 89 countries the Apple device is called the iPhone.

Android is great for the techs of today (the grandsons of the PC hobbyists of the 1970s), for todays consumers wanting a mobile phone & Internet communicator service, not a just a device, RIM & Apple have it in spades.

[Robbo]

An iPhone is like a penis... Fun to play with by yourself, but rude to whip out in front of friends.

Just make sure when in 'Penis' mode, your aren't listening to music ... The songs keep shuffling !

[norbs]

I still don't understand why the iPhone cant multitask. My last 2 Nokias have been able to do it and that is going back 4 years.

I am having a good look at the Androids when I come off contract in a few months.

[Robbo]

I still don't understand why the iPhone cant multitask. My last 2 Nokias have been able to do it and that is going back 4 years.

When jailbroken, they can multitask but I think you need an app to 'manage' the multitasking. A bit like running Windows over DOS.

[norbs]

I still don't understand why the iPhone cant multitask. My last 2 Nokias have been able to do it and that is going back 4 years.

When jailbroken, they can multitask but I think you need an app to 'manage' the multitasking. A bit like running Windows over DOS.

Now you're selling it Robbo!

[wabbit]

Of course it can norbs, and does already only Apple apps but. It's by choice for the moment. They say until battery life improves, an easy To understand Task Manager is built. Push notifications are a better solution over all. Or there's jailbreaking

[markus]

Of course it can norbs, and does already only Apple apps but. It's by choice for the moment. They say until battery life improves, an easy To understand Task Manager is built. Push notifications are a better solution over all. Or there's jailbreaking

Considering that the Apple apps multitask already, if you don't include irc-clients - what do you need multitasking for ?

My other phone is a Nokia e75 and the only time I have used multitasking has been using irc and music player (ok, bad example since that's something the iPhone can do as well).

[wabbit]

I still think allowing true multitasking is a bonus. Fully persistent apps just isn't the same experience as true multitasking. There's another limitation with the amount of RAM available for apps. I think OS4 will change this, seeing the iPhone 3G will be out of support by then, leaving the 3GS and 4G? both have double (or more) the ram of the 3G.

[Robbo]

It's true that there are components of the iPhone that multitask by nature, but I'm sure it is by choice that it is restricted. Imagine leaving tasks which access the NET running in the background and seeing your bill at the end of the month! Ouch!! And the point about battery life is a good one too. My phone will barely run for a day when used solidly with maps and music.

On the Nokia multitask front, I've read many a thread where they grind to a halt and need rebooting when multitasking. They probably run out of memory. You gotta remember, these gadgets started life as phones. When I bought the iPhone my thoughts were .. "You beauty, an iPod with a built in phone."

[DexterPunk]

haha its true robbo.. but with greater technology come greater expectations... hell, i have a 21mp DSLR capable of reasonably clean images up to ISO 6400... back in the film days, ISO 1600 film was grainy as! but people still find a reason to complain. Most things with the iphone are quick and easy, multi tasking would be good but the most id probably use it for is playing music while i play a game or something.. which most apps now let you do. You can even have multiple webpages open and switch between them quickly and easily. I dare say that the apps for iphone are more resource hungry than anything for Nokia, so running multiple apps at a time is really gunna stretch it. Like wabbit said... unless you have a 3Gs right now, I can't see it working too well... apple im sure know this, and its probably why they didnt want people doing it until the phones are more powerful. If they included it in OS3.0 you'd probably have end users trying to run 15 apps and wondering why their phone is crashing all the time, then blaming it on the iphone.

[AstrO]

If they included it in OS3.0 you'd probably have end users trying to run 15 apps and wondering why their phone is crashing all the time, then blaming it on the iphone.

I'm sure they'd find a way to blame Micro$oft and Bill Gates

[wabbit]

but I'm sure it is by choice that it is restricted.

WWDC 2008 - iPhone 2.0 SDK update

[youtube] [/youtube]

[Montey]

Yipee.... Random Microsoft bashing! Lets all cheer and shout!

A persistent IP connection = increased 3G data use.

To maintain a persistent connection you have to put a minimum amount of data down that connection, essentially saying "are you still there?", over and over again, 24 x 7. This means that it will be like having a water tap that you can't quite turn off to save water. So its a question of which is the lesser of the evils.... no increased running cost but a reduction in performance, or no reduction in performance but an increased running cost?

Edit: Oh, by the way, that method of multitasking isn't just the exclusive province of Microsoft. Lets see who else does it:

- All Linux variants
- All BSD variants
- Solaris
- AIX
- Oh... and how could we forget Apple OSX
- Plus plenty of others.

[wabbit]

Easy now Montey It was just easier to let everyone know that Apple have done it this way by design. As for the increased 3G useage. I haven't noticed it ever with 12 apps persistently connected with Push Notifications.

[DexterPunk]

Ive always had Push notification off because im scared of going over my data limit. I have 750MB of data a month though, and usually only use about 50-75%... do you think im safe to use it wabbit?