Lance won't contest the charges

[J.D.]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-24/a ... es/4220530" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[norbs]

My Twitter timeline has been scrolling like a god damned mofo this morning.

Waiting to see when Johan edits his website.

[Duke]

Blah, not even news worthy imho... It's a he said, she said scenario... means nothing... yet...

My POV: As I understand the rules it is only the sporting bodies that can implement a ban which means only the UCI thorugh USA Cycling can actually ban & strip him of any titles won in UCI events.
So Im not sure what would happen if the USADA wins a criminal case against LA wrt to the UCI & USAC then banning or stripping him of titles.
I think that will be the most interesting part of this saga if that is what eventuates.

[Jiminee]

So Norbs, is this a smear campaign or is he dirty?

[norbs]

So Norbs, is this a smear campaign or is he dirty?

Like Flinty said, it is a he said, she said sort of thing. The Lance Army comes out with their version and those against him say virtually the opposite.

There is a shit load out there to read. I have spent a shitload of time today reading about it.

I don't have all the facts that USADA had, but my gut feeling, after being a supporter of his many years back, is that he doped. There is just so much out there to suggest it. Considering how many people have been busted from the mid 90's to 2010 when he left the sport, and he consistently beat a lot of them, and by a margin, it puts his record in question.

I could list a shitload of articles about him, but from the shit canning I have copped today on twitter, it seems a lot of people have made up their minds already.

Cycling news have a list here of all their articles... http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/ind ... -the-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are really interested, have a gander at this lot.

http://velocitynation.com/content/inter ... l-ashenden" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; That is long, but it is a very interesting article. Probably the pick for mine.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richkarlgaa ... ic-figure/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://theconversation.edu.au/lance-ar ... -work-7666" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And for all the Livestrong disciples, have a gander at this article...

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... tml?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really, until we see the evidence the USADA had, and we will see it at some point, who really knows for sure. The fact that he chose not to contest the charges could mean he is fed up, or he didnt want the evidence to come out. Again, who knows.

The fact that he said today in his statement he had been bullied was another thing that needled me a little. http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycli ... down-rider" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not to mention Frankie and Betsy Andreu or Tyler Hamilton.

Really, it is a fucking soap opera!

[Jiminee]

Something I heard on a totally unrelated podcast (talking about the Jamaican sprinters I think) is that this is often not a black and white type deal as we might expect. Now the number used may be wrong but the example they gave was that for athletes they can have 4 times the amount of testerone that a 'normal' person has in their system before the alarm bells go off, so if they get tested and are found to be at 3.99 then they are fine, they are still juicing but just not above the allowable level, which is where it all goes shades of grey. Remember they have to be at less than 4 times the normal level at the time of testing, presumably that means outside of that, in training for instance, they can be way over it and then either allow their levels to come down pre competition or take other drugs to help get their levels down fast.
It was just a way of looking at things that I had never considered before and why the 'ate some tainted meat' defence gets brought up. The meat on its own would not have much effect, but add it to their carefully measured dosing they are aware of and it could be enough to tip them over the edge.
Basically it is a whole shit load more complicated than simply jamming a steroid needle in your arm and getting busted for it.
I believe this was the point Carl Lewis was making when he pointed out the Jamaican guys do not get tested outside of competition. I would think a top level athlete would have naturally higher levels of go juice in their system, that's what makes them gifted in the first place so 4 times the normal amount may not be that much but I am gussing it makes a big bloody difference come race day.

[norbs]

There are plenty of people say that the dopers are so far ahead of the testers it is ridiculous.

Armstrong claims he has passed 500 drug tests and never been caught. Well, that number is bull shit. It has been torn apart numerous times. But, maybe he is counting the in house testing they would have to do to keep track of things.

[Jiminee]

Just read some of what you posted and a nice summary on the iRacing forum and it does seem very, very conclusive.
To me the fact that he is giving up now, where continuing would see everything come out publically is damning. Seems he is trying to save face and let all the myths and bullshit do their work so protect his reputation, rather than letting the real story come out and destroy him.

[richo]

I really hope he is not a cheat , there are very few sports stars that i have truly looked to being some one i would like to emulate .

The word hero gets handed out like lollies but he was one of mine.

[Duke]

I only admire LA for his single-minded-ness which also helped him overcame cancer. His physical feats at the TdF were always going to be questioned given we now know what was going on in pro-cycling at that time.
But honestly if they were all doing it then he was the best at that as well wasn't he...? Case in point is the Major League Baseball Home-Run Sluggers of the late 80's & early 90's (which is also worth reading about).

[Jiminee]

No question those baseball guys were doping though - Sosa, McQuire, ARod they have all admitted it. Bonds is the only one who hasn't and it is the one who does not have to, the physical changes were so obvious for him no other evidence was required.
I do not buy the argument that everyone else was doing it so he had no choice, cheating is still cheating. At least come out and admit it and be honest about it, if he had done so 5 years ago he would of been forgiven, the baseball guys were but just like Bonds, the ones who hold themselves up and hide behind shaky science are the ones who end up being hated.

[Montey]

The two questions I have which I have not yet found an answer to are:

1. Does USADA actually have any evidence? Have they performed a blood test that has come back positive and then verified with a B sample?
2. USADA is saying they will strip his TDF titles, but surely they can't as the TDF is not a USADA event. Given the UCI was backing Lance in his lawsuit against USADA, wouldn't that imply that he is going to keep his TDF wins?

[norbs]

The two questions I have which I have not yet found an answer to are:

1. Does USADA actually have any evidence? Have they performed a blood test that has come back positive and then verified with a B sample?
2. USADA is saying they will strip his TDF titles, but surely they can't as the TDF is not a USADA event. Given the UCI was backing Lance in his lawsuit against USADA, wouldn't that imply that he is going to keep his TDF wins?

Montey. Point one. We might find out later in the year or early next year if the USADA evidence is aired. See below.

The Washington Post reported on a copy of a 15-page letter sent to Lance Armstrong by USADA on Tuesday. In it, the agency alleged that some of Armstrong's blood samples from 2009 and 2010 were "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions."

Point 2. Again see below, from probably one of the best cycling sites on the net, inrng.com


USADA is an agency working under the World Anti-Doping Agency rules. If an athlete waives their right to a hearing then here is 8.3 of the WADA Code:

Waiver of Hearing
The right to a hearing may be waived either expressly or by the Athlete’s or other Person’s failure to challenge an Anti-Doping Organization’s assertion that an anti-doping rule violation has occurred within the specific time period provided in the Anti-Doping Organization’s rules. Where no hearing occurs, the Anti-Doping Organization with results management responsibility shall submit to the Persons described in Article 13.2.3 a reasoned decision explaining the action taken.

In short waiving the hearing means USADA can reach a “reasoned decision” based on the evidence at its disposal. If USADA rules there is a doping offence and gives a lifetime ban and says he should be stripped of his wins then this applies worldwide. It is then for the UCI, as cycling’s governing body, to await the decision and then to issue the formal notice stripping Armstrong of his wins which it must do to comply with the WADA Code. All prize monies must be repaid too.

I am interested to see if he has to pay back 5 million (7.5 after settlement) he earnt from SCA for winning 6 TdFs. http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12122 ... rvice.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jiminee]

Can we (the South Australian tax payer) demand a refund for the money given to him to come out to the Tour Down Under now? Surely now all his fame and results were gained illegitimately and he was given that money under flase pretenses.

[nutty]

I have been a big supporter of Lance over the years, and like many I believed he was clean.
Recently I read a lot on it, and I lost faith that he was clean throughout his whole career, but its also lead me to believe just how many players throughout the world dope, and how many sports don’t care about it, especially in America and cycling is one sport I feel safe knowing the vast majority is clean these days.
Compare it to the big American sports, NBA this year brought in out of competition testing, and that doesn’t cover HGH http://www.nba.com/2011/news/12/07/wedn ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NFL only does pre-season testing, UFC only put in a policy a few months ago
Look and see how players comeback after an off season bigger then ever. Most footy players are huge for round 1 then drop off throughout the season. Soo combine that with not testing throughout the off season and it makes me wonder. Then you combine that with the fact most HGH/Steorid is all about cycling, so you do a 8 week cycle and build up your strength then you stop, many players fit this into the off season and get away with it.

[Jiminee]

I completely agree Nutty, this is not something that is going away any time soon.

[bengatta]

it has happened overnight, so they may as well continue...

Lemond, Hinault, Indurain and Merckx must have been doped as well....

you can almost certainly say Hinault and Indurain... Merckx may have been too early in the career timeline for the bad stuff...

Hey why even stop there... maybe just declare the sport... Invalid

2003 should be fun for the sport to sort out...

because Ulrichs ban only goes back to 2005, he is now the winner (which will give him 4 now).... if they think that is unfair, they can give it to 3rd, Vinokourov, or maybe 4th Tyler Hamilton...

[Jiminee]

Surely they just have to declare it a voided contest and not have an official winner.

[Dr. Pain]

This is only a USADC not UCI decision so the Tour titles still stand as far as I know.

[w00dsy]

[bengatta]

and as many as floyd landis...

[norbs]

Worth a listen....
http://velocastcc.squarespace.com/race- ... ition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[J.D.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19906657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[norbs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19906657

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have spent most of today going over the supporting documents. And most of that time with my jaw on the floor!

My regard for that cheating fuck wasn't high last night, today I would like to see him get some jail time for perjury at least. Lying, cheating, bullying fucking arsehole! Thank god for Paul Kimmage, David Walsh, Betsy Adreu and few others that stood up to the prick.

[bengatta]

Yay for WADA and USADA... they must be so proud.