Tour de France 2013

[norbs]

Personally I think they are all on performance enhancing something or another. It's just a question of degrees.
I'd be absolutely stunned if a single one of them was completely clean.

I watched that stage last night and even at my fittest I doubt I could cycle that entire climb completely fresh. Yet these blokes do it after 200+KM Farken hell.

+ That little Columbian fella impressed the hell out of me.

I hate to burst your bubble Jamo, but you are so far from the level of these guys it isn't funny.

I have been chatting to a local A grade rider who is over there. I have ridden with him a few times and is so much faster than me with out even trying it is humiliating. He went at Ventoux the day before with everything he had and averaged 11kph. The best pros averaged 19kph.

EDIT : I stand corrected.

http://app.strava.com/activities/67057155#1287916836" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would love to see Froome's time.

[Jamo]

No bubble Norbs I realise that. Even without the juice they're Night & Day from the average cyclist.

[nutty]

Of course they are on drugs

Have a read of this reddit thread today,

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specifically this guys comments on the TDF
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[norbs]

I don't think they are up to anything near what they were in the early 2000's.

That said, I would bet my balls there are a few teams skating right on the edge of what is legal. Ethical, probably not, but who cares about ethics at the top level of any sports?

All that said, I think cycling is doing way more than most sports to clean itself up.

The bio passport and the sheer amount of testing would make it hard to dope to any great extent. But you might not have too. Even a 2% gain at this level can set you apart.

I think that Reddit article could be shredded by some like Michael Asherden.

As I said earlier today though, when you see someone like Froome do what he did yesterday, after 230kms at an average speed of 47kph, it does make you wonder.

I am not so stupid to say I think cycling is clean, but I thing it is getting there. There will always be cheats. Such is life.

[pixelboy]

As I said earlier today though, when you see someone like Froome do what he did yesterday, after 230kms at an average speed of 47kph, it does make you wonder.

I am not so stupid to say I think cycling is clean, but I thing it is getting there. There will always be cheats. Such is life.

So you are outright calling Froome a dope cheat? No evidence other than two stellar performances? Last night and the first big mountain stage? Is Quintana also a cheat? He was only 30 seconds behind..?

Cycling is truly ruined for you then.

I'm not convinced cycling is totally clean either but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven guilty. Not much point watching otherwise.

[CLP]

I'd *really* like to believe that froome is clean..

unfortunately though, i'd probably go so far as saying that the way Froome revved up and just took off was an even stronger performance than i'd ever seen Lance Armstrong ride. So to believe that Froome is clean, i'd have to believe that it was possible for him to ride stronger than Lance juiced to the eyeballs.. i dunno... definitely raises an eyebrow .. I really hope that i'm wrong ... time will tell. benefit of the doubt, sure, but I can't help but think we've seen it all before..

[norbs]

As I said earlier today though, when you see someone like Froome do what he did yesterday, after 230kms at an average speed of 47kph, it does make you wonder.

I am not so stupid to say I think cycling is clean, but I thing it is getting there. There will always be cheats. Such is life.

So you are outright calling Froome a dope cheat? No evidence other than two stellar performances? Last night and the first big mountain stage? Is Quintana also a cheat? He was only 30 seconds behind..?

Cycling is truly ruined for you then.

I'm not convinced cycling is totally clean either but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven guilty. Not much point watching otherwise.

I don't think I have called him a cheat anywhere. I may be wrong, it has been a long 2 weeks.

I would be surprised if he was cheating, but given what has happened over the past 20 years, it would be naive to not be a little suspicious. Look at who has come out in the past 12 months. Armstrong was the big fish, but there are plenty of others. All of them swore black and blue they were clean. The trust isn't there anymore. When you see a guy take off up a hill after 230kms, there must be some questions. Ignoring it left us where we are today.

I am more suspicious of Wiggins. Does bugger all on the road then, pow, 2012 happens. I realise the TdF par cours suited him last year and he had a super strong team, but he held form from Feb to Oct. Again, something odd there.

I hope I am wrong. Maybe Sky have just hit upon a superb way to train and recover. I just don't know why Mick Rogers hasn't told the guys at Saxo about it. He has been very quiet this year compared to last year.

Really, who the fuck knows. If Sky were as transparent as they promised to be, maybe all this would go away.

[Swain OHaw]

To be fair, he placed fourth in the GC in 2009 (upgraded to third after Lance's removal due to his cheating) which isn't exactly bugger all. I can't remember 2010 too well but 2011 he was out injured and I think last year was a bit of a perfect storm of strong team, suitable course and weakened field ... his form this year then dropped considerably, so maybe the effect finally hit, he didn't do the Giro or Vuelta last year, unless I'm mistaken so his form was only in shorter events.

I really hope he's clean. I think another drugged up winner would be awful for the sport. It is a shame that what could just be phenomenal riding has to be treated with such suspicions now though ...

[norbs]

Good point Owain, I had forgotten his podium. Although, last year it was clear he wasn't the strongest rider. So his 1 yellow jersey was pretty much gifted him. Enough on Wiggo.

This article sums it up better than I can.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/ ... rue_295224" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or

http://roadcycling.com/news-results/tou ... eRv1FObMu4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both explain it better than I do.

I will say this. If Dave Brailsford is fair dinkum with his offer to show WADA their data as long as it is kept confidential, it will go a long way to helping people like me believe. Despite the fact that people are saying they will skew the numbers. It is the thing that has bugged me about Sky from the time they started winning. When they started it was going to be all completely transparent. To the point that Kimmage was going to travel with them on the Tour last year. Then Wiggins threw his toys out of the cot and it didn't happen. At the last minute too if I remember correctly. And people wonder why there is suspicion.

[Swain OHaw]

Good point Owain, I had forgotten his podium. Although, last year it was clear he wasn't the strongest rider. So his 1 yellow jersey was pretty much gifted him. Enough on Wiggo.

This article sums it up better than I can.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/ ... rue_295224" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or

http://roadcycling.com/news-results/tou ... eRv1FObMu4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both explain it better than I do.

I will say this. If Dave Brailsford is fair dinkum with his offer to show WADA their data as long as it is kept confidential, it will go a long way to helping people like me believe. Despite the fact that people are saying they will skew the numbers. It is the thing that has bugged me about Sky from the time they started winning. When they started it was going to be all completely transparent. To the point that Kimmage was going to travel with them on the Tour last year. Then Wiggins threw his toys out of the cot and it didn't happen. At the last minute too if I remember correctly. And people wonder why there is suspicion.

I think the journo was kicked out just after the tour started, actually. And there's other things, they're definitely not as squeaky clean and transparent as they promised to be, and that has inevitably bred this suspicion, along with the performance of Froome ... the rest of the team haven't been consistently at that level though, we saw how Stage 8 affected Richie Porte and the rest, they only really recovered this week.

I don't know ... I really want to believe, but I've believed before. Even this speculation really affects your enjoyment of it ...

[Swain OHaw]

Yay! Love breakaway wins ... well done Costa.

[Duke]

Very impressive win by Froome Dog last night.
I actually jumped off the couch seeing Poor Peraud crash on that already injured shoulder. Ouch!!!

[youtube] [/youtube]

Tonight could be either EPIC, Disastrous or a Non-Event if the weather has anything to do with it.
The descent off the Col de Sarenne (the back of Alpe d'Huez) is a billy goat track, check the video below.
Read about the stage here http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.c ... ez-2x.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which includes the weather graphic further below.

[norbs]

Froome already asking for the descent to be neutralised if it is raining FFS.

[Duke]

Well if the race was being held in this nanny state that route would never have even been considered as a legitimate race route in the 1st place.

But then that's why these guys are paid professionals so suck it up princesses.

[Jamo]

Holy Crap there's no way I'd ride Bonnie on a road like that, she'd be destroyed!That's close to Cross Country MTB I reckon LOL

[CLP]

Tonight could be either EPIC, Disastrous or a Non-Event if the weather has anything to do with it.

only thing that could make this stage even more epic is watching it on the big screen.. Fortunately i'll be heading to the Capri cinema to watch it....

[Swain OHaw]

Hasn't the descent been specially re-surfaced for this event?

[Duke]

It may have but from the ITV podcast I listened to today it's still pretty narrow & dodgy.

[Duke]

Wow what a stage it had everything. Maybe not as EPIC for some but I sure felt it met or exceeded all my expectations.

Fantastic result for the French, I was sort of glad TJ didn't win it, not sure if it's because I'm a closet Cadel fan or that for some reason I feel TJ is an obnoxious little yanky kid. Saxo-Bank really did some strange things which really showed how desperate they are knowing they can't match SKY & Movistar on the climbs.

I find the 20sec penalty given to Froome quite laughable on many angles.
I understand they went against the spirit of the rules but rules should be black & white otherwise how can consistency be applied.
The rules state no feeding from the team in last 20km or on any climbs & descents but you can get stuff off teammates at anytime of the stage/race.
Given it is now known that the lead SKY team car following Froome had a mechanical on the descent between the two climbs of l'Alpe d'Huex and that the SKY leaders couldn't get (enough) food in the only permissible area before the last climb no wonder they were forced to do what they did.
Add to that it was Ritchie who got feed from the team car then by the definition of the rule it should only be Ritchie who gets penalised.
Then there is the fact that given the penalty they decide it should only be a poultry 20secs, that's nothing in the scheme of things & hardly a future deterrent to them or any other riders.

But how good was Ritchi, unfriggen-believeable the way he just kept coming back & helping his stricken team-mate.

[norbs]

Wow what a stage it had everything. Maybe not as EPIC for norbs but I sure felt it met or exceeded all my expectations.

Fantastic result for the French, I was sort of glad TJ didn't win it, not sure if it's because I'm a closet Cadel fan or that for some reason I feel TJ is an obnoxious little yanky kid. Saxo-Bank really did some strange things which really showed how desperate they are knowing they can't match SKY & Movistar on the climbs.

I find the 20sec penalty given to Froome quite laughable on many angles.
I understand they went against the spirit of the rules but rules should be black & white otherwise how can consistency be applied.
The rules state no feeding from the team in last 20km or on any climbs & descents but you can get stuff off teammates at anytime of the stage/race.
Given it is now known that the lead SKY team car following Froome had a mechanical on the descent between the two climbs of l'Alpe d'Huex and that the SKY leaders couldn't get (enough) food in the only permissible area before the last climb no wonder they were forced to do what they did.
Add to that it was Ritchie who got feed from the team car then by the definition of the rule it should only be Ritchie who gets penalised.
Then there is the fact that given the penalty they decide it should only be a poultry 20secs, that's nothing in the scheme of things & hardly a future deterrent to them or any other riders.

But how good was Ritchi, unfriggen-believeable the way he just kept coming back & helping his stricken team-mate.

I fixed that for you.

And no, it didn't live up to all the hype in my opinion. But, despite the fucking grief I have been getting on Twitter, I still loved it. I was just trying to point out to some people that building some things up like they did is a bad idea. It could never live up to the hype I saw yesterday.

Team Sky may not be cheats, but their ethics need a fucking good look at.

Riblon was great. So good to see a French winner on that stage.

[Duke]

I fixed that for you.

And no, it didn't live up to all the hype in my opinion. But, despite the fucking grief I have been getting on Twitter, I still loved it. I was just trying to point out to some people that building some things up like they did is a bad idea. It could never live up to the hype I saw yesterday.

Team Sky may not be cheats, but their ethics need a fucking good look at.

Hahahaha!!! Yep after our tweetfest last night I finally got what you were getting at re: EPIC or NOT.
I agree that the media beat up probably did set stupidly high expectations but I also think that's the downfall of how you are so integrated with it these days.
As for Team SKY's ethics well I think most teams push the boundaries most of the time but you don't always get to see or hear about it.
For instance Contador swapped bikes twice last night, why? Also how many times have you seen Spaniards from different teams help each other & I know they're not the only ones. Horses for Courses I say, it is a team sport after all.

All I know is the next 2 nights will be very interesting & hopefully as good.

[norbs]

It wasn't so much the media, as other numpties talking it up all day. I reckon stage 9 was way more EPIC than last night. Obviously, not many people agree with that. Fuck the lot of you I say.

One report, I think Velonews suggest Contador had 2 bikes set up. One for downhill and one for uphill. Not a lot different to what Froome had set up on the ITT the day before. Just didnt work so well for Contador.

Not much being said about Mick Rogers, who is now 8th!

[Dr. Pain]

So Sir Christopher Froome coming up?

[wobblysauce]

[youtube] [/youtube]

[smithcorp]

At the end of this thing, I want to see a supercut of all those arsehole spectators getting snotted and coat-hangared. I couldn't be there on the roadside - I'd get into too many fights.