B777 crash @ San Francisco

[J.D.]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/06/us/ca ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No confirmation of fatalities yet but BBC is reporting at least one.

Pic 2 looks like it dropped short and off the centre line (tail strike? Probably explains why it's missing).

[Big Kev]

Yeah marks on the runway certainly make it look like it dropped short.

Very lucky that the casualties are so low.

[Big Kev]

Strange priorities from people these days isn't it.

Be involved in plane crash
Escape the chaos successfully regardless of casualties
Get phone out
Take picture
Get it on Twitter!

[J.D.]

The debris and damage on the runway is pretty interesting. Looks like the aircraft was well to the right of the centreline and there are intermittent scrapes on the grass/dirt verge. They look to me like they were made by an engine pod.

Have been discussing this today with a retired air safety investigator. His perspective has been really interesting but above all, he's keeping a totally open mind about it.

[NeilPearson]

The debris and damage on the runway is pretty interesting. Looks like the aircraft was well to the right of the centreline and there are intermittent scrapes on the grass/dirt verge. They look to me like they were made by an engine pod.

Have been discussing this today with a retired air safety investigator. His perspective has been really interesting but above all, he's keeping a totally open mind about it.

What was his perspective?

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[J.D.]

Who said it was doing 98kts? Sounds like something from PPRuNe...I just looked at that thread. It's a trainwreck.

[J.D.]

Someone there was saying 85...

That was just before they started blaming the media.

Sorry to sound stroppy Chris but those guys give me the shits.

[J.D.]

Here's some phone vision of it from a long way away, with the now-obligatory "Oh my god" several times over.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/us ... fred-hayes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some interesting questions posed here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/07/us/ca ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Duke]

So the ILS was inoperable & VFR rules were in place. So I'm right in thinking approach & landings would then need to be hand flown?

If so then controlled descent into terrain / pilot error would have to be high on the consideration list wouldn't it.

That vision is crazy, so few casualties is astounding really

[Big Kev]

They're now reporting the pilot was in training and he was trying to abort the landing.
Seems he may have come in too slow by mistake and then didn't have enough time to go full power and get out of it.

[J.D.]

Old saying: never get low and slow in a jet.

I thought this was an interesting point from that PPRuNe thread:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5185 ... co-16.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 777 can catch you out with with what is known as the "FLCH trap."

When you are above the glide slope and need to get down in a hurry Flight Level Change (FLCH) is a useful mode to use. Normally you transfer to another mode like glideslope or vertical speed, or you switch off the flight directors.

However in this situation the glideslope was off the air so the ILS would not have ben selected or armed. If the flight directors were left on and the plane was descending at a high rate in FLCH the autothrottle would have been inhibited and would not have put on power so the thrust levers would have stayed at idle.

If the Asiana was a bit high (quite normal for SFO) then regained the visual glideslope, the rate of descent would have decreased and the speed would have started slowly reducing but with the thrust levers staying at idle the 777 would now be in the same situation as the Turkish 737 at AMS, ie speed decreasing below Vref and not being noticed.

The 777 has autothrottle wake up, ie when the aircraft approaches a stall the power comes on automatically to almost full power. This gives pilots great confidence however autothrottle wake up is inhibited in FLCH.

So 777 pilots will be looking at this scenario and wondering if Asiana were in FLCH with flight directors on, too high, stabilised late and did not notice they were still in FLCH and that the autothrottle was not keeping the speed to Vref plus 5 untl too late.

Just a theory but I think it far more likely than engine failure, radalt failure or autothrottle failure and I suspect when the events are unravelled this will be what has happend.

Probably one of the few intelligent observations anyone made.

[J.D.]

This is interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013 ... ef=us&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[J.D.]

The cultural thing seems to have been over-emphasised. The seniority issue seems to have worked against that argument, especially if reports are correct that the 2nd pilot had control. I don't know why this continually comes up when Asian airlines are mentioned. Yes, it's a possible factor, maybe even a major one but why did it not come up when that Air France A330 went into the Atlantic a few years ago for want of some basic flying?

This was the one thing about that thread that had me banging my head on the desk. If it's raised in the inquiry then fair enough but given that this case seems to involve basic aviation, I wonder if it's even relevant.

[Big Kev]

Someone happened to be filming when it landed

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also CNN are reporting one of the fatalities actually survived the crash and was hit by a fire truck arriving on scene.

[AstrO]

Someone happened to be filming when it landed

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If he had been holding his phone correctly, we may have seen more detail...

[Big Kev]

Try
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[J.D.]

News reports say the flight data shows 106kts at landing instead of 137:

Flight data showed the plane had been traveling at approximately 106 knots at impact -- sharply lower than the target speed necessary for landing.

"137 knots is the speed that they want to have when they cross the threshold of the runway," Hersman said, noting that the aircraft crew were tasked with ensuring the correct speed of the plane.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/pilots-quizzed ... 11681.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Someone's arse is grass.

[J.D.]

Hooray! Fox News (affiliate station) to the rescue:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=563_1373664708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know how authentic this is but it's farkin' funny.

[Big Kev]

[Big Kev]

Hooray! Fox News (affiliate station) to the rescue:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=563_1373664708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know how authentic this is but it's farkin' funny.

They had to post an apology too

[youtube] [/youtube]

[Vilante]

"We apologise for this air"

[J.D.]

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel- ... 2q04m.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now it's getting undignified.

[Big Kev]

accusing it of damaging the airline's reputation by using bogus and racially offensive names

I'm not sure how the names are racist.

She said the report seriously damaged Asiana's reputation.

Er no. Crashing a plane did that!

[J.D.]

I'm not sure how the names are racist.

At the very least it shows a lack of cultural awareness.

[J.D.]

Yeah, I saw some shots of burnt out seats.