New Beast (now Toyota 86 discussion)

[Shaun]

Thats crazy how much pad you went through in a track day in a standard car. Wish i looked before and after when i did a day years ago in an ss

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[ysu]

Thanks for the pics, completely justifies the pad and fluid upgrade.

Back to rims for a sec I think I'm just about decided on either Enkei RPF1 in SBC or the Enkei RSM9 in Platinum Silver. The RPF1 are a touch lighter and also cheaper but SBC is not common and I feel the Platinum Silver looks a little better on the white car, neither are ideal looks wise for me but coupled with the weight saving will do the job. Unfortunately they're the more expensive colour options in their range and may be limited in sizes available, moreso the RPF1 SBC.

Where did you see the RPF1's for sale ysu? These guys seem to be the only ones I could find http://www.autotechnik.com.au/

by the way do you know if the stock tyres would fit on a 7.5 or 8" width rim?

Enkei Availability: autotechnic was the cheapest , there's also jdm accessories
But I've found *used* ones over at importmonster (already sold) for half price. They were only scratched, so it'd have been ideal.

If you believe online resources, both 7.5 and 8 wide rims can still handle the stock 215 tyres.
eg: http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/chart ... size-chart

But if we're sticking to stock width, then why use a wider, heavier rim? Although the difference is negligible if you can believe these guys: http://measurespeed.com/enkei-rims-wheel-weight

What I can't for the life of me find info on is rubber weight. And that'd be just as important, if not more important - it's after all the farthest from the axle and has the biggest effect on the torque.

[ysu]

Oh, by the way, if you're looking for some decent rubber, I've found these places to stock a lot of the good stuff:
http://tracksidetyres.com.au/tyres/
http://www.stgeorgetyres.com.au/productstyres.aspx

Eg one of my faves: http://www.stgeorgetyres.com.au/tyres/n ... etail.aspx

Another (also recommended by Chris) is the Hankook ventus 221
http://www.garysmotorsporttyres.com.au/ ... ks-hankook

[Sarsippius]

Thanks for the links, I'm guessing tyre weights are probably much of a muchness with little scope to reduce weight in construction.

The main reason for wondering re the stock tyres is as a first step I'll probably swap them over to the new rims and then upgrade the tyres once they're too worn. I also had the same thought as you re staying with 7" wide rims but neither Enkei option has a 7" with the right bolt pattern (5x100 as far as i know) and I may be limited in width for the colours I want (RPF1 SBC is only available on select rims).

These are quite useful
RPF1 Chart
RSM9 Chart

If I had to go an 8" in the RPF1 they only have a 45mm offset rather than the stock 48mm, I'd prefer to keep the geometry exactly the same if possible but don't know if 3mm will make much difference.

by the way for tyres I think you're looking in a totally different spec than I am, some Michelin PS3's are as sporty as I'm wanting to go

[ysu]

Intersting. Apparently the 17x7 exists in 5x100 (indeed the correct pattern) - but maybe not here in aus?

Eg: at tyrerack
very light, too!

I hate the highly reduced availability of everything here


Eh it seems I've messed up before - the previous link was to a set of Enkei PF1's which are a bit heavier. Seems the RPF1 is only available in 8", even that's out of stock. FFS.
I've had Garage 88 offer me 17x8 Enkei RPF1's for $1580 before, by the way. (Read good things about them)

I'll prolly have to contact some of these guys...this isn't right :/

[Exar Kun]

Haha ysu - that looks about right for tyres. Mine aren't directional so I swap the front left to the back right after a day at Wakefield. Brakes are a little surprising to me. The stock ones never looked that bad on the Clio but I still swapped to brembo high carbon discs and DS2500s after my first time out. Did braided lines too but it's made little difference to pedal feel over a day.

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[ysu]

Nice, Exar!
Yeah that photo was the front left. I don't think the braided or steel lines do much, but I may still try them (why not). Maybe when I get more experienced I'll appreciate the difference. WRT the brake pads; the stock pads are very much street pads. Quiet & comfortable. 48 laps in anger was a bit too much for them

Sarsi, back on the wheel issue;
I've just found that Yokohama makes a bunch of really nice light wheels. I've nfi about the price & details, so I'm contacting them - maybe they can make some nice package with some Advan Neova AD08R or A048 rubber

And by the way, there is some weight info on the a048!

[Sarsippius]

Yeah it looks like they're Advan wheels, could be some good options & light weight like this although from the Yokohama site they're about $600 a rim.

I'm starting to think I should just get the RPF1 in silver or black and get them painted, a local place quoted ~$80 a wheel so that's still going to be cheaper than other options like OZ or Advan and I can work out a colour I really like.

[ysu]

I'm not fussed on colour, lucky me. Something dark is fine.
In the meantime, I've found another option;
These babies are very-very light. 6.6kg light http://zoxoro.com.au/Products/?text=motegi+traklite (don't mind the pcd, it can be had in 5x100 elsewhere)
Altho we're slowly leaving the cheap wheel category here.

I'm thinking the 8" wide maybe more versatile for the future. It's soo hard to make a decision on things you don't quite know, eh? But yeah, the 8" can take 215-245 tyres...

[Sarsippius]

You've posted while I was typing, I haven't changed my post much.

Ok I've just put down a deposit on some RPF1s. I talked to the guy at Autotechnik a couple of times this morning and have gone for

Enkei RPF1 17x8+45 5-100 Silver - $1,350

Unfortunately they sold their last set this morning so I'll have to wait eight weeks but I'm not in a rush. If you're thinking of going this way ysu you might want to give them a call, apparently they only have two sets coming in the next delivery. They have a gold set (no thanks hehe), their site says they have a black set but I didn't ask him.

What he told me was that 8" wide was the one to go for, basically for the wider track, the lower offset also gives a slightly wider track. It seems no one ever wants the 7.5's and apparently when Toyota dealers request rims from them (speccing customer cars I guess) they ask for 17x8, make of it what you will and the weight difference is minimal so I went with it.
I said to him these are light weight rims but quite cheap compared to other options, what's the catch? He said it's basically their 'dealer' price and they make little margin on them. The RRP would be about $1,700 but five years ago they stopped going through stores and chains and sell for the same price to everyone, reducing overheads and making money through volume.

The RSM9s are a much less popular range, mostly being sold to go on European cars. Despite being heavier due to the low volumes they go for $1,980.

$1,350 - Rims
$200 - Freight
$60 - Centering rings x 4 (required)
$100 - Wheel nuts 4x 4 +1 lock nut (stock won't do apparently)
$1,710 - Total to the door

I asked him about the TPMS in the wheels, he was pretty adamant our cars don't have them. There's a lot about them on the ft86club forum so I guess they must be a US only thing?

The pic is a white car (or is it silver) with the silver rims, looks ok to me.

[ysu]

Ah ffs....I've had an offer a couple of weeks ago, but did not chase it down. Now it turns out they'd have been perfect. Motegi tracklite 17x8 for $325 a corner. But the seller (wheelworkx) did not respond to me with the weight & price, plus he tried to push me onto bigger/wiser, so on the surface I thought it was not what I wanted, and I did not research it on the spot.

They're now gone. 3 months wait. They are lighter than the rpf1's. Even better looking tbh.

I'm getting really pissed with the stock in aus. The prices are shocking but add to that the stock levels, and it's all out of this world.

Thanks for the heads up...I might just go for that, it's cheap enough.

Edit: TPMS definitely does not exists on my current wheels I agree, it's probably US only.

Edit2: ha! found some! http://www.ozzytyres.com.au/motegi-raci ... black.html

[ysu]

Fuckin A!!!
I've scored that set, they had an extra bit of discount on it, came down to $1088, free shipping & installation kit included (nuts & hub rings).

by the way the offset is +38 on this one just for future reference.

[Exar Kun]

Make sure hub rings are metal otherwise you'll have some melty looking plastic on your front hubs after a track day

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[ysu]

Make sure hub rings are metal otherwise you'll have some melty looking plastic on your front hubs after a track day

Thanks for the tip! I will.

[Sarsippius]

Good find and now I'm thinking I could've saved myself $500 haha

Where did you find the weights? At least on tire rack they're listed as a bit heavier than RPF1s. On the Motegi site I found 17x7 +45, no +38? No weight info I could see either.

[ysu]

I've looked it up on measurespeed.com, so it maybe off - it does not list the specific ones, only "traklite". Hm...bugger. I should not try to work & research wheels at the same time, LOL.
I'll measure the weight once it arrives, that's the only real test.

On another note, my pads still did not turn up. I've messaged the seller (BrakesDirect) and they said they still don't have an ETA from QFM, so they upgrade me to Forza FP3 pads at no extra cost, and they did not ask the already delivered A1RM front pads back!
Better pads + extra spare fronts!

[Sarsippius]

Speaking of brakes I guess it's one thing after another when it comes to cars. Once the rims were sorted I suddenly got to thinking about brake kits, I guess the weight savings was the thing. This is a good read from some guys who make one of the most well regarded kits for our cars.

The benefits are obvious but it's probably a bit much for my requirements. However I was thinking it could be an ok thing looking at it long term. Pull off the stock kit for if/when I sell the car, the big brake kit will give the weight benefits, preserve the car from some of the heat effects, reduce some running costs and be able to be sold eventually recouping a lot of the original cost.

However getting a local price the Essex Sprint kit is $3,780, just a bit too much lol

I had noticed Project Mu also have a kit so I thought I'll give them a call, probably also way too much but just see what they've got and I'm glad I did. I spoke to a guy there who was very knowledgeable about such things and who really helped with what might be some good options.

He's going to send me some prices on various bits but what I'm leaning towards now is to get some two piece rotors for the front, something like this or this. I'll probably get some more race orientated pads than I had planned and swap them in and out just for the track days, race fluid as planned and possibly some braided lines.

The rotors should give some of the weight savings you get from the kit and will also dissipate the heat better which should look after the car a bit better. They'll still be $1k+ which is more reasonable and should be sufficient for my needs. If I was going to track more often though I think I would just go all out for the Sprint kit as it just makes sense in that situation.

[ysu]

Good points!

Forgot to mention...Chris Reeves has recommended the DBA 5000 discs, too. But it's $500 ea isn't it? That's $2k all around then? He said just change it when the stock rotors wear out.

I've thought about BBK but I am not sold on that. I have read somewhere that you won't get enough temperature in those on a NA car. On FI it's great. Edit: as in temp for performance pads to work at optimum. One guy even said he could not bed them in properly....not sure about that claim.

And of course I've never thought about burnt calipers at selling

[Sarsippius]

I only plan on getting front rotors, it doesn't seem like rears are really needed, the Essex Sprint kit is front only as you probably know. I guess the potential weight savings would be good but I don't think the heat is much of an issue at the rear on these cars and from what I gather the rotors aren't so much about improving braking performance so it's not going to throw off the balance or anything.

I had read something about struggling to get heat into pads with a BBK & the bedding thing (we're no doubt reading the same stuff ). I guess you would have to pick an appropriate pad working at the right temp and you'd probably have to go with a street pad on the road. I'm also working from the view that Darwin is always hot and Hidden Valley is known as a hard braking circuit.

It's not only calipers that I was thinking about but wheel bearings and such, I figure some attention to the brakes will be some good preventative maintenance.

[ysu]

I agree

To further the conversation, I've made a decision about the future of the car. I'll keep in NA.
Get a shorter final gear, probably 4.88 (AT, the gears are too long)
Get an ACE header+over pipe (maybe wait for the 350 in RHD, as I'm not sure about the 400)
And get an Ecutec tune with it (there are ACE header specific ones for each)

And I think that's about it.

by the way; on tyres, there's a pretty good deal on tyres at Bridgestone, $600 for a set of RE003's, fitted (stock size) after cashback.

[Sarsippius]

Hmm just when you think you've worked out a direction to take, maybe 2 piece rotors aren't such a good option? Maybe it's a money for what you get thing or depends on what you're looking for thing. If my main purpose is the heat issue it may still be worth it, not so sure now.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13869

If you're looking at headers and a tune I'd give Coyote Tuning a call and see what they recommend, I'd look at it myself if I wasn't so far away. Ecutek also seem to have a pretty bad rep in some places & the license fee is quite high. Not sure what Coyote use but it was going to be $400 vs $1k that's typical with Ecutek.

Not sure if you've seen anything regarding the 2017 refresh of the 86 & BRZ but a shorter final drive is something they've done along with a modest power increase, I think it's the manuals only though.

[Sarsippius]

by the way; on tyres, there's a pretty good deal on tyres at Bridgestone, $600 for a set of RE003's, fitted (stock size) after cashback.

Bob Jane have the same deal but also on the Michelin Pilot Sport 3's, $159 per tyre or $536 after $100 cash back. The guy I spoke to said 235/45 R17s for 8" wide rims so I'm torn a bit at the moment. I think I should go for it, it's a good deal but the stock tyres still have a good amount of tread left (although being 3+ years old age might become a factor soon) and the 235s won't fit the stock rims so they'll sit around for two months till the new rims arrive. Decisions decisions

[ysu]

Yeah 2mo is a lot of time...there maybe a 4 for 3 deal in the meantime on one of the good ones...But I'll buy two sets, one for the streets & rain + one for the track only.
So I'm really thinking hard - I'll need to research which one is the best for rainy conds.

Edit: I've never had/used a good Michelin tyre before...so I may not go for those. Altho the pilot sport 3 is well regarded. And is good in rain, apparently...
Edit2: hm...seems it's among the best for wet. LOL.
Edit3: but Continental Sport Contact 5 is 4for3 deal at BobJane & Jax. And it seems it's even better in the wet. $225 at jax

[Sarsippius]

The Continental is meant to be good but pretty bad for wear. The PS3 is meant to be good for grip, I can't remember exactly but I think wear is good and it's also low rolling resistance like the Primacy so good on the fuel economy.

I've another little bit of a dilemma now lol, I thought all 45 aspect tyres would be the same height but it's actually a ratio of the tyre width so the 235/45 R17s are actually significantly larger in diameter than the 215/45 R17s. Depending on the state an increase of 15mm is the most you can have, these are 18mm and there's also negative effects, it's basically like putting a longer final drive in the car. In the US a lot of guys seem to go with 235/40 R17s but that size doesn't seem available here.
It seems like I will have to go for 225/45 R17s and all of this may be why you were told 225s were the optimal choice, it's still a lager diameter but not a huge amount. The problem is though that this tyre is less common and therefore more expensive.
I thought I'd speak to the Enkei guy again and he seems to be all about track width so thinks 235s are the go but if I went for the 7.5" rims they'd cost more so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other as far as cost goes.

By the way, Tire Rack does list tyre weights. It looks like the PS3 225s are 24lbs vs the Primacy 215s 20lbs so everything I've saved in rim weight is gone with the extra tyre weight lol Of course the same tyre on stock rims is still heavier overall but the lightest would be the 7.5" rim with 215s.

Oh one other thing, have you actually priced a lower final drive? I think you might be onto something, it could be a good option.

[ysu]

Ah, I thought you knew that, bummer!
Yeah, sometimes you can get 225/40 or 235/40 tyres but they are generally quite a bit more expensive than their popular /45 counterparts.
But maybe it's not too late to change your rpf1 order, I'd do that. The 7.5 is a perfect size for the regular & wider tyres as well. Although...you can still fit a 225/40 on a 7" rim!

You'll go through more tyres than rims, I reckon.

WRT the final drive, I've no first-hand information as of yet. I know the cost of a Weir 4.88 drive but there's a lot more in it. I'll have to talk to a diff shop.
Some info:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103667

I've read that if you have a manual, you're prolly better off with a tad closer to default, 4.56 final ratio. But of course it's also a personal preference thing.
And of course if you go FI, you'd be nuts to go for a shorter gear, LOL.