GTR bug in GTL - but worse

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:44 pm

uh oh...

Most of us are familer with the GTR bug that starts people on the same grid position... GTL does that and goes one step worse (if that was possible).

I was just at the mini Monza track and it started four of us all on the same spot but not on the start grid either - heres the twist, it was somewhere after T1 (hard to recongise as the scenery wasn't drawn) on the full Monza track (even though we were on mini)... lol... So I went for a drive and fell off the map, oops... 240km/h in the GTA!!!!

Edit: Urm it wouldn't be T1 anymore, the first right hander after the first chicane

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:48 pm

now everyone is driving in the sky... awesome

Post by **Shonky** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:13 pm

I love the 2nd screenie.

c.j · Post by **c.j** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:24 pm

Dukes of GT-Legends.... :P

ysu · Post by **ysu** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:00 pm

As funny as it looks it's just sad.
Shame these guys just can't pull a decent multi-player environment.

Instead of disconnecting lagging players you can go through them, and some are starting like the above images illustrate...

Even if we say, everybody makes mistakes, it seems they make the same ones over and over again. The file browser is the same crap, the information available (the lackof) while in the pits/driving same crap. The skip session still gives the AI 2s/lap extra on their laptimes... all the same errors.

I mean I love driving in GTL, feels excellent, even the AI is pretty good, very clean and fairly competitive, but these slackness-driven mistakes leave a bad taste. If they don't fix it up, this will not be the 'future gpl' game....

Here's a theory: they had a frame built for GTR, they just put the new ISI gMotor in, fixed up the interface incompatibilities, put together new cars, a few new tracks, and sold it as GTL.

Post by **Shonky** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:57 pm

ysu wrote:Here's a theory: they had a frame built for GTR, they just put the new ISI gMotor in, fixed up the interface incompatibilities, put together new cars, a few new tracks, and sold it as GTL.

Sadly I think you are right on the money there.

Exar Kun · Post by **Exar Kun** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:40 am

Yeah, this onbe happens when really laggy players join. It's very unfortunate that they didn't also grab the rFactor multiplayer whilst they were getting the rest of the new engine. A few of the things - AI gaining more time - are from the ISI engine and there doesn't seem to be much they can do about it.

Lack of information in the pits - well, you can't get split times but you can get everyone's lap times from every lap they've done which is as good as any other game isn't it? Also - what crap file browser? At least you can sort into folders which you can't do in LFS. Wish you could also only show setups per car selected though.

Barge · Post by **Barge** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:39 am

I'm not surprised.
But what does surprise me is how three blokes on a back yard budget can write a netcode better than anyone else...(LFS).
Really, if we are honest, nothing comes close.
I had held some hope with GTL.....

Post by **Bauer** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:07 am

Barge wrote:
But what does surprise me is how three blokes on a back yard budget can write a netcode better than anyone else...(LFS).
Really, if we are honest, nothing comes close.

if we are being honest, NASCAR2003 is untouchable by even LFS. and thats old now. But we could have 42 cars online at once, majority on dial up and the only warp or lag you would see was if a pigeon farted somewhere along the nullabor while carrying packet info for the Perth guys.

LFS did it smart by limiting the number of cars online to what their code could handle and they did it very well. GPL did an equally as good job (also very old by comparison) and rFactor can be just as smooth as LFS. I have raced in a 30 car field in rFactor and it was jumpy as hell. Was later informed that the server was set to a low bandwidth use setting and it couldnt handle 30 cars especially with half from o/s. I am as confident in our rFactor servers as I am in any LFS server.

So why o why cant simbin get it right?

and back in the gPL days, the players used to do what they could to help th eonline code be as smooth as possible. Dial uppers would slow their modem to minimize warp. there were web pages devoted to thing like that. Nowadays people get funky wireless broadband and other shit that doesnt help stability and wonder why games arent as good online as they used to be

Barge · Post by **Barge** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:50 am

yeah forgot about the Papy netcode. But even still, the cars seems to have the smallest hint of shimmer....LFS's seem to have more substance, or solidity. Like i am racing a car as opposed to a drawing of a car...dunno..i've never been able to get the right words to describe it...but Papy and LFS are so far ahead of anyone else it ain't funny..

Exar Kun · Post by **Exar Kun** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:39 am

Like Stu said, rFactors net code is extremely good too.

Simbin's seems to be fine to me if it's working. I actually prefer the way higher lag cars behave in GTR and GTL online to the way they do in LFS and rF. But it's the bugs that are shitty. The netcode is still the same basic thing that's been around since F1C - and that was a huge struggle to get more than 6 online in. The guy behind the code in Simbin stuff is the dude who wrote the F1RST client for F1C. He kind of knows his stuff but I think they need to send way more resources his way and let him totally start from scratch for the next title. Unfortunately, with Simbin releasing one game a year at the moment (how many years since S1 came out? S2 full still hasn't been released...) I just don't think they are going to do the right thing and let him do it. They should just get the rF code and be done with it.

Whilst they're at it, Simbin and ISI and LFS can all go and look at how replays were handled in Indycar Racing - released in 1995 - and see if they can learn something.

w00dsy · Post by **w00dsy** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:31 am

Barge wrote:yeah forgot about the Papy netcode.

a lot of people think sim racing started with LFS

Acerlyte · Post by **Acerlyte** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:33 am

Yeah, I will vouch for rFactor's netcode. Was on the Ausorc server the other day with a 30 car PCC field and it was smooth as! It was fantastic watching the replay at the start because not only did rFactor handle it great, all the guys in the field behaved well and it was a totally clean start with no mishaps at all! Online racing as it should be!!

Not knocking Nascar 03 or LFS for that matter as they too do this as well, just good to see ISI getting on the right track finally! Now if only Simbin could do the same...

c.j · Post by **c.j** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:27 pm

w00dsy wrote:
Barge wrote:yeah forgot about the Papy netcode.
a lot of people think sim racing started with LFS

It did for me...

LFS was the first racing game i ever played online...

Indycar racing by Papyrus was the first racing game i played. but i never played anything til LFS after that. And that was the last release of S1 that i first got too... lol

Barge · Post by **Barge** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:35 pm

I raced GPL, NR3 & 4 before LFS. Because LFS has the best netcode, it made me enjoy online racing so much more. Shit i even raced Need for Speed 2 online...but i don't often admit to that. I found it hard to go back to most racing online after LFS...

Post by **Bauer** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:47 pm

Barge wrote: Shit i even raced Need for Speed 2 online...