TEST Patch X30 : Formula BMW / Track / Physics Updates

Peptis · Post by **Peptis** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:04 am

Taking all the testing into account, you'd think that if he was going to fudge it he'd be better off increasing the clamping force than reducing the heating factor.

I normally think that Scawen makes really good decisions, but lately...

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:11 am

I still say its a good thing...

We were discussing last night, would be nothing better then hours of practicing, 20 minutes of qualifying, get tapped at the first corner, do a big smokey burn out to get away again and....

nmassive clutch damage.

Does it actually cool down again, get better after a few laps if that happens, or is the car stuffed?

Pinger$ · Post by **Pinger$** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:36 am

Not sure - I did 3 laps after heating it up to the start of the red in the bmw thing and it didn't seem to cool one bit.

...that brings me to tyres as well... they don't cool down quick enough either. I don't think there's any change in rate of cooling whether you're moving or not.
Really feels like there only a scale to heat them from friction with a linear function to cool down.
I.e. My point is driving quietly, when your tyres are 150 degrees they will cool quicker to 100 degrees than being stopped. Fair enough they shouldn't get that hot... but it's a simulator.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:45 pm

Test Patch X36 now released, did Scawen visit ARSE and read our discussion on the clutch heat?

Scawen from LFS Forum wrote: Changes in TEST PATCH X36:

Note: AFTER X30 IS INSTALLED, update to X35 with the auto updater - just click Multiplayer... List of Hosts

Clutch :
Clutch heating restored to X33 level
Stronger clutches in some cars based on engine inertia
Changed cars : UF1 / XFG / XRG / LX4 / LX6 / FZ5

AI :
FIX : KYoto National pit path was reversed

Umm, I would have thought the FBM needed a stronger clutch too

Doso · Post by **Doso** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:25 pm

Pinger$ wrote:Not sure - I did 3 laps after heating it up to the start of the red in the bmw thing and it didn't seem to cool one bit.

clutches do cool down however the new BMW car is the worst, it heats up real quick and takes ages to cool down you pretty much have to pull into the pits and shut it off and wait for 4 or 5 laps, it really makes you think about flick spinning the car if you do end up spinning because that will burn the clutch

Pinger$ wrote:...that brings me to tyres as well... they don't cool down quick enough either. I don't think there's any change in rate of cooling whether you're moving or not.
Really feels like there only a scale to heat them from friction with a linear function to cool down.
I.e. My point is driving quietly, when your tyres are 150 degrees they will cool quicker to 100 degrees than being stopped. Fair enough they shouldn't get that hot... but it's a simulator.

the new system means that r1 tyres are for 1-2 lap qualifying only (the way it should be imho) but people are still using them for 5 laps races which by the end means there burning up r2/r3 dont suffer any where near as bad and seem to be able to cool alot faster. You have to remeber that r1's are super stick/soft tyres and hold heat alot more than say r2/r3's

in the end i quite like the changes and think there all for the positive as it brings more realism into the game imho

r8response · Post by **r8response** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:58 pm

I wonder if they will ever have separate wear/grip levels for the different tyres.

Gougoodthing · Post by **Gougoodthing** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:24 pm

Doso wrote:
Pinger$ wrote:Not sure - I did 3 laps after heating it up to the start of the red in the bmw thing and it didn't seem to cool one bit.
clutches do cool down however the new BMW car is the worst, it heats up real quick and takes ages to cool down you pretty much have to pull into the pits and shut it off and wait for 4 or 5 laps, it really makes you think about flick spinning the car if you do end up spinning because that will burn the clutch

Pinger$ wrote:...that brings me to tyres as well... they don't cool down quick enough either. I don't think there's any change in rate of cooling whether you're moving or not.
Really feels like there only a scale to heat them from friction with a linear function to cool down.
I.e. My point is driving quietly, when your tyres are 150 degrees they will cool quicker to 100 degrees than being stopped. Fair enough they shouldn't get that hot... but it's a simulator.

I think we will see a new thing in LFS tonight...

The NASCAR style wounded car, running around, 10 seconds off the pace, trying to salvage some points.

Doso · Post by **Doso** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:14 pm

Gougoodthing wrote: I think we will see a new thing in LFS tonight...

The NASCAR style wounded car, running around, 10 seconds off the pace, trying to salvage some points.

the more realism the better i say

TassieDevil_Original · Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 pm

Doso wrote:
Gougoodthing wrote: I think we will see a new thing in LFS tonight...

The NASCAR style wounded car, running around, 10 seconds off the pace, trying to salvage some points.
the more realism the better i say

But not to the sacrifice to the game, if they keep on the way they are with some things it will significantly reduce the number of people using it and future buyers of the game and then that will hurt us the ones that like to race to our own CHOICE of realism, but making for less people and servers to race on, the game isn't any good without people to race.........

Crash Dummy · Post by **Crash Dummy** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:22 pm

I don't know about everyone else but I'm 100% happy with LFS becomming the best driving simulation around even if it means driving away users because it's too hard. If it's too hard i know some games that they can take up instead. They have drag racing, circuit, drifting and none of the hard realistic stuff of LFS. Yeah to those that complain. Please buy Need For Speed Pro Street.

slow069 · Post by **slow069** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:54 pm

Crash Dummy wrote:I don't know about everyone else but I'm 100% happy with LFS becomming the best driving simulation around even if it means driving away users because it's too hard. If it's too hard i know some games that they can take up instead. They have drag racing, circuit, drifting and none of the hard realistic stuff of LFS. Yeah to those that complain. Please buy Need For Speed Pro Street.

agreed

tassie are you goig through pms?

Pinger$ · Post by **Pinger$** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:40 pm

LFS isn't too hard

It's probably not hard enough in some cases... very rarely in LFS do you see someone get it sideways, then bite again and flick off the opposite side of the track. IRL this happens a lot... don't see it in LFS.... yet

Gusto · Post by **Gusto** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:54 am

Pinger$ wrote:LFS isn't too hard It's probably not hard enough in some cases... very rarely in LFS do you see someone get it sideways, then bite again and flick off the opposite side of the track. IRL this happens a lot... don't see it in LFS.... yet

it happened a few times in tonight's AAL race

Weeeeeeeee

But I have to agree with the slower cars. If they're sideways, they usually just slide. There's no sideways slide then suddenly grip and flip.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:37 am

GustoAU wrote:
Pinger$ wrote:LFS isn't too hard It's probably not hard enough in some cases... very rarely in LFS do you see someone get it sideways, then bite again and flick off the opposite side of the track. IRL this happens a lot... don't see it in LFS.... yet
it happened a few times in tonight's AAL race Weeeeeeeee

But I have to agree with the slower cars. If they're sideways, they usually just slide. There's no sideways slide then suddenly grip and flip.

Yeah the FBM can bite back hard with the new test patch, not sure if the standard cars have changed to handle like that as well as I haven't had a chance to drive any of them in anger yet.

richo · Post by **richo** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:00 am

Yeah when it lets go its often not good, but you can powerslide it really nicely, specially on the esses after the back straight , i can drift it through there nicely .

Probably by accident but it responds really well to just kicking in more power, maybe thats why i,m so slow in it more driving and less sliding:)

TassieDevil_Original · Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:52 am

slow069 wrote:
Crash Dummy wrote:I don't know about everyone else but I'm 100% happy with LFS becomming the best driving simulation around even if it means driving away users because it's too hard. If it's too hard i know some games that they can take up instead. They have drag racing, circuit, drifting and none of the hard realistic stuff of LFS. Yeah to those that complain. Please buy Need For Speed Pro Street.
agreed

tassie are you goig through pms?

Fuck off, it's comments like you c**t* that just piss me off

TassieDevil_Original · Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:04 am

Flinty72 wrote:
GustoAU wrote:
Pinger$ wrote:LFS isn't too hard It's probably not hard enough in some cases... very rarely in LFS do you see someone get it sideways, then bite again and flick off the opposite side of the track. IRL this happens a lot... don't see it in LFS.... yet
it happened a few times in tonight's AAL race Weeeeeeeee

But I have to agree with the slower cars. If they're sideways, they usually just slide. There's no sideways slide then suddenly grip and flip.
Yeah the FBM can bite back hard with the new test patch, not sure if the standard cars have changed to handle like that as well as I haven't had a chance to drive any of them in anger yet.

Well if you have actually driven standard cars hard, you will find that they don't actually flick around too much when you know how to drive, because over the years I have thrown quite a few cars around full lock sideways in the dry in the wet and very rarely ended up with the old tank slapper, even in my big old HX Statesman, and my old VN wagon at the moment is often thrown around corners, more so in the wet than the dry, but again, actually don't think I have lost it in this one at all, and I have had it as far sideways as you can get, just no more steering left to go any further.

I know I am getting pissed off with peoples comments to me, but I am getting sick of being told that I can't I comment about somebody elses opinion, and also in the same breath they bag my OPINION, so just shut the fuck up and leave me alone. Because all this shit is really turning me off the game even more. And I do like realism, and if people were so keen on it then they would be using chase cams, bonnet cams and so on to drive, and no guage overlay to read speedo's and the like, and the cars would end up flying 50 feet into the air and all that crap.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:00 am

TassieDevil_Original wrote:
Flinty72 wrote:
GustoAU wrote: it happened a few times in tonight's AAL race Weeeeeeeee

But I have to agree with the slower cars. If they're sideways, they usually just slide. There's no sideways slide then suddenly grip and flip.
Yeah the FBM can bite back hard with the new test patch, not sure if the standard cars have changed to handle like that as well as I haven't had a chance to drive any of them in anger yet.
Well if you have actually driven standard cars hard, you will find that they don't actually flick around too much when you know how to drive, because over the years I have thrown quite a few cars around full lock sideways in the dry in the wet and very rarely ended up with the old tank slapper, even in my big old HX Statesman, and my old VN wagon at the moment is often thrown around corners, more so in the wet than the dry, but again, actually don't think I have lost it in this one at all, and I have had it as far sideways as you can get, just no more steering left to go any further.

I know I am getting pissed off with peoples comments to me, but I am getting sick of being told that I can't I comment about somebody elses opinion, and also in the same breath they bag my OPINION, so just shut the fuck up and leave me alone. Because all this shit is really turning me off the game even more. And I do like realism, and if people were so keen on it then they would be using chase cams, bonnet cams and so on to drive, and no guage overlay to read speedo's and the like, and the cars would end up flying 50 feet into the air and all that crap.

Sounds like you need some support, which thread is it Tassie, I would like to read what the Euro n00bs are saying?

Pinger$ · Post by **Pinger$** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:11 am

Yes, I've driven standard cars hard...

vs commodore - doesn't really snap, but i haven't had it very sideways
r31 skyline - never snapped
shitter scorpion - never snapped
toyota sprinter - written off eventually after snapping for the last time

Point is some cars have a tendency to do it, others not so much - surely you agree the slower cars in LFS are too slippery? as they have always been. Maybe it's that the grip level feels identical between tracks and even between corners... just too used to it.

AstrO · Post by **AstrO** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:18 am

<Disclaimer> The below post contains AstrO's views and only AstrO's views </Disclaimer>

I believe that adding too much "realism" to a game is a bad thing. A computer (and connected controllers) CAN'T simulate most things that happen in real life and forcing these things onto users is just bad game design. For example my computer has the following limitations...

It can't display pictures at insanely high (human eye level) resolutions. In fact I'm sure it would be be considered legally blind (e.g. one low resolution eye would not be considered good sight).
The display shows only a tiny area of what you would see in real life and you can't look around like you would in real car
Your average computer seating position is nothing like a real car (or even close to a SS formula racer)
Pedals have ZERO feel & feedback
Force feedback on a standard controller (e.g. wheel) is nothing like real life
No driving forces are effecting your body... (which I guess is a good thing for fighting games. I wouldn't be very impressed if I was kicked in the balls because of a game.)
Sound effects are OK, but still not close to being realistic

If everyone had a perfect racing simulator at home then we wouldn't need options for things like auto-clutch, auto-gearbox, virtual mirrors, virtual dash overlays, look left/right/back, etc... Features like clutch overheat are taking things a bit too far when for one, I don't have a clutch pedal, and two, if I did have a clutch pedal I still wouldn't be able to feel when the clutch was engaged because of lack of pedal forces. I believe the developers would be better off spending their time adding features like weather effects and night mode. Not developing things that only please a small portion of the target audience and removing things that anger the majority (e.g. 90 degree look).

avaran · Post by **avaran** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:47 am

Pinger$ wrote:LFS isn't too hard It's probably not hard enough in some cases... very rarely in LFS do you see someone get it sideways, then bite again and flick off the opposite side of the track. IRL this happens a lot... don't see it in LFS.... yet

You've never seen me race, have you?

avaran · Post by **avaran** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:50 am

AstrO wrote: I believe the developers would be better off spending their time adding features like weather effects and night mode. Not developing things that only please a small portion of the target audience and removing things that anger the majority (e.g. 90 degree look).

Fug yeah!

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:24 pm

what astro said

Quincy · Post by **Quincy** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:38 pm

yeah but, no but, yeah but...

gotta look to the future... kids of today will grow up with superpowerful computers, clutch pedals will be mandatory with new release wheels, and LFS is going to be the MOST realistic driving simulator around, it'll be used to train drivers like flight simulators are....
LFS is ahead of the rest already, the devs are in it for the long run.... strap yourselves in, and hang on!!!

richo · Post by **richo** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:53 pm

Stop baiting Sterling like that please!