TEST Patch X30 : Formula BMW / Track / Physics Updates

Crash Dummy · Post by **Crash Dummy** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:23 pm

TassieDevil_Original wrote:
Crash Dummy wrote:
TassieDevil_Original wrote: Fuck off, it's comments like you c**t* that just piss me off
Take a chill pill mate. I'm entitled to MY opinion too. No need to get personal.
Well who said it was aimed at you, did you mention my name...um no, but you must have been digging at MY opinion then if you feel so guilty.

Because you quoted my comment I thought it was pointed at me too.
No hard feelings

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:05 pm

Another Test Patch X39, not much just some clean up coding it looks.

Scawen from LFS Forum wrote: Changes in X39 :
Included Lithuanian translation
FIX : Buffer overflow issue in SPR and MPR files

On a side note, Scawen has now released Test Patch X38 as a downloadable exe file, which you only need if you haven't already installed the Test Patch X30-X37.

Scawen from LFS Forum wrote:NOTE : YOU DO NOT NEED THIS IF YOU ALREADY HAVE X30 OR LATER!
IN THAT CASE SIMPLY USE THE AUTOUPDATER (Click on List of Hosts)

PATCH X38 (Version X must already be installed) :
Save into your LFS folder then run the patch install
http://www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs...H_X_TO_X38.exe (64 MB)

Pinger$ · Post by **Pinger$** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:21 am

I think when the features included to compensate for being on a pc result in faster/easier racing than someone with more realistic simulation equipment, then you have to wonder what the point is. Trying to make it a level playing field is impossible for all the control methods out there... but I'm quite happy to swing it towards those with better equipment... just not overly... E.g. autoclutching should only be as fast as the average speed of a manual shift... not the theoretical minimum shift time.

pixelboy · Post by **pixelboy** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:45 am

Y is out

AAL Servers updated

VIPEROSI · Post by **VIPEROSI** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:05 pm

I didnt want to bother with the test patch so i waited till Y came out.

Main thing i wanted to do was compare the Formula BMW in rfactor to LFS. To me the massive issue with lfs is the sound, the fbmw sounds rubbish compared to the one in rfactor, blipping the throttle on downshifts in rfactor sounds just like real life and i think it really is a massive issue with trying to create a immersive environment when the sound is so poor in lfs that you dont get excited by it at all.

To me the FBMW in lfs is too high in downforce, like some have said it is simply too easy to drive. The same car in rfactor also developed by people with involvement involving real world teams reacts so much more like what ive seen on youtube and even the lfs promotional video. It can still spin under throttle which you are hard pressed to do lfs, and it has unstable moments in braking at times like what the lfs developer experienced.

To me the lfs version is just way to easy to drive and a very bland driving experience.

I understand there have been lots of little changes but what i really need to come back to lfs is s3 not a simple update.

ReppohC · Post by **ReppohC** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:21 pm

If you are using the default set for the FBM its running rather high df and as a result is fairly stable (but slow). 11/13 downforce off memory. The 'race' sets (about 1-2 seconds a lap quicker) are running absolute minimum downforce, about 3-6 on the front and 4 degrees on the rear. Certainly makes the car a bit more of a handful (relative to default)... As for unstable moments in braking, Weeeeeeeeee. I do agree that the car could use a bit more "life" though but then most cars in LFS are pretty forgiving and easy to drive. At the end of the day the racing in the FBM is tight and close and even if the car isn't a "handful" it is fun. 100% realistic? Maybe not.

Unfortunately LFS will never have good sound just because of the method they use. Very easy to make a more realistic sound using samples but I really doubt the devs are going to head down that route. Take the good with the bad I suppose.

Fandango · Post by **Fandango** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:00 am

I find it hard to accept that they won't go down that road. You can buy an "arcade" racer on the old xbox that has better sounds than LFS and I feel that is a factor that's a very important element in the overall immersion of a race sim.

Fix the fucken sound! Can't be that hard!

(Actually Rep could u explain why it's a route they might not be willing to take? I may be confused a little here. Beers... nuff said!)

ReppohC · Post by **ReppohC** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:24 pm

I dont know for sure, its just my opinion on the mindset of the developers. They have invested a fair bit of time on the current sound engine and I don't see them giving up on it just yet. I mean if you consider they are "simulating" engine noise using all the different components of sound an engine might make... Its not just three sound samples blended together over a range of rpm. Its pretty cool in concept in my opinion but obviously rather complicated at the same time. They have made some big improvements in that area too which is encouraging I think. But I don't think its ever going to rival the "dodgy" method which almost every other game uses. I think they are happy to keep plodding away doing all sorts of 'minor' changes to the game to make it what THEY want not what the community wants. I mean thats what they have been doing for the last 5 years why change it now? Its good to see they have used some help from people in the community though, but yeah, its still their game and I don't see them deviating too much based on community response.

Sarsippius · Post by **Sarsippius** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:40 pm

Personally I would hate to see the sound system changed to one that uses samples like gtr and rfactor. While those games may have the wow factor the engine sound in LFS is far more informative. Not that I play those games often but every time I watch a vid or something I'm immediately struck by how lifeless the sampled sound system is.

by the way while it's a mute point now that patch Y is out I think those with a single axis for brake and throttle should be able to have throttle blip and cut back, blip at the very least.

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:12 am

Wasn't the smartest decision... plus there is still brake help, that's far more of an aid than a auto blipping throttle.

ReppohC · Post by **ReppohC** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:45 pm

Whats this brake help you have mentioned a few times? I havn't noticed any help but maybe Im just blinded by my LFS fanboi-ness. An example would be appreciated

Gusto · Post by **Gusto** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:47 pm

Sarsippius wrote:by the way while it's a mute point now that patch Y is out I think those with a single axis for brake and throttle should be able to have throttle blip and cut back, blip at the very least.

Hell Yes. It's impossible to drive properly with a joystick/joypad now. Mouse is still fine though.

Sambo · Post by **Sambo** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 am

ReppohC wrote:Whats this brake help you have mentioned a few times? I havn't noticed any help but maybe Im just blinded by my LFS fanboi-ness. An example would be appreciated

used to be an option you could select in the player menu that would enable superhuman ABS type systems so technically you could brake better, it was more of a popular choice in s1 due to some of the cars having big tendencies to lock under brakes. Not used soo much anymore.

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:57 pm

I still use joystick just use autohotkey to do the shit they removed, so dunno why they bothered removing it when it can still be done by an external program..

SamC · Post by **SamC** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:18 pm

just get a wheel, simple. its based off realism and i certainly dont drive my car with a joystick.

Gusto · Post by **Gusto** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:29 pm

some people don't have enough space (or a table) for a wheel. At least many people in Japan :P

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:09 am

ReppohC wrote:Whats this brake help you have mentioned a few times? I havn't noticed any help but maybe Im just blinded by my LFS fanboi-ness. An example would be appreciated

It's still there and works like Sambo described.

Options>Driver>Brake Help No/Yes

VIPEROSI · Post by **VIPEROSI** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:15 pm

ReppohC wrote:If you are using the default set for the FBM its running rather high df and as a result is fairly stable (but slow). 11/13 downforce off memory. The 'race' sets (about 1-2 seconds a lap quicker) are running absolute minimum downforce, about 3-6 on the front and 4 degrees on the rear. Certainly makes the car a bit more of a handful (relative to default)... As for unstable moments in braking, Weeeeeeeeee. I do agree that the car could use a bit more "life" though but then most cars in LFS are pretty forgiving and easy to drive. At the end of the day the racing in the FBM is tight and close and even if the car isn't a "handful" it is fun. 100% realistic? Maybe not.

Unfortunately LFS will never have good sound just because of the method they use. Very easy to make a more realistic sound using samples but I really doubt the devs are going to head down that route. Take the good with the bad I suppose.

Yeah i grabbed one of the lower downforce sets but i was still hard pressed to get it unstable. You can basically do whatever you want with it the only time it gets unstable is when you downshift too early which all the cars do anyway.

Like you say i cant see them ever changing the soundsystem even though it sounds rubbish. The amount of samples they use these days and the way they are mixed makes it almost impossible to tell the difference in games like gtr, rfactor and race. If anyone has ever played the CTDP 2005 formula 1 mod in rfactor and compare it to the f1 car in lfs you would think lfs sound was from a game in the early 90's.

Like you say the fbmw is still enjoyable in lfs, but when i get back into rfactor its a extremely fun car to drive, and results in very close racing due to its relatively slow nature for a openwheeler. But the extra fun factor is that it feels like the under tyred car it is, so even though it has downforce its small tyres and the lower grip they provide makes it far more fun in the tight corners where it can get a bit slippery. I have found it impossible to create a oversteer moment under throttle in lfs during normal racing conditions. Even a gokart with 12hp looses grip coming out of tighter corners.

So to me its still a fun car and i might make a appearance in aal if it doesnt clash with a rfactor league race but i just think other developers and sims are doing better at creating a immersive and realistic experience......despite the multitude of things lfs simulates.