A.R.S.E.

smithcorp wrote:So, I got a letter from Dept of Industry about the ending of the solar feed in tariff plan in NSW at the end of December 2016. Haven't been contacted by Energy Australia yet as my provider, but it looks like my 60c per KwH will go down to about 6c. I have about $500 in credit on my EA account at the moment and my plan is to possibly increase the number of panels we have as part of a house extension, and go for battery storage.

Likely to be a boom time for people 'doing something' about their panels with the solar bonus scheme ending, so not sure whether to start arranging things now, or wait a bit. I figure at the least I'll need to replace my inverter/controller thingy and probably get a smart meter.

So, anyone know who is offering deals on battery storage installations?

Batteries are still a ways off for me Smiss. The good thing is, there are alternatives.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/03/aussi ... he-market/

http://www.panasonic.com/au/consumer/en ... sk84a.html

But the ROI is not something to make a blokes pants swell.

I am hoping the technology keeps moving forward at an exponential rate and these things become more affordable.

I would be asking about net FIT Smiss. At least that way you are getting the same value for your solar generated. I expect that 6c/kWh is gross. Go to a smart meter and switch to net, and i reckon you will be far better off. if you can that is.

What i would really like is a time of usage meter, and batteries that you can charge in the dead of night when the cost is low, and then run off batteries and use solar to keep them topped up during the day. So you are paying the cheapest rate for the power off the grid and using solar to keep them topped up during the day.

Cheers norbs - I knew you'd have the latest info. The solar choice website suggests that retro-fitting batteries to an existing solar system would take 20 years to pay off (this assumes that the issue is purely financial). While when we do our extension I am hoping we could put another 3kw of panels on the roof, I think batteries might be a step too far.

I'll look into the net tariff question some more. I'm confused based on what I've read. We use most of our power at night, so wouldn't net tariff pay us for the times we are using power least?

http://sciencenewsjournal.com/future-so ... raindrops/
A new solar cell prototype developed by a team of scientists in Qingdao, China may change the way we use solar panels in the not so distant future.

https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/a ... ncy-record
Australian scientists smash solar cell efficiency record

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-27/s ... ng/7664450

So, this bloke has paid $16k up front (or on a loan) for panels + battery, and his daily electricity bill has gone from $5 or $6 ,to 59 cents. So, let's exaggerate and say a $6 / day saving. At that rate, it will take him 2666 days to "get his money back". That is 7.3 years!

But how long will the batteries and panels be efficient for after 7 years?

I can not see how any of this (even solar panels by them self) make economic sense. Just imagine how much interest you could earn off of that (at average of $8k investment over 7 years @ 5% pa compounded (roughly equal to my mortgage) you could make about $3250).

Other than "being green", am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

pab wrote:Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

Good point. Would be interesting to see the price of electricity over the past 10 years, and its projected price over the next 10. But - is it worth spending $10k+ on today?

How long generally do these systems last? Does their efficiency start to trail off linearly over time? Exponentially? Can they be serviced and brought back to 100% efficiency? (In relation to their as-new efficiency levels).

On another note, do you think solar panel and battery technology will improve also over the next few years and end up becoming significantly cheaper?

pab wrote:Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

This, in bold!

I am looking into doing something similar.

The problem is for my circumstances, the outlay is a hurdle. But with competition in the battery market, prices will drop and all will be good.

In ten years, this will be common.

plastik8 wrote:

pab wrote:Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

Good point. Would be interesting to see the price of electricity over the past 10 years, and its projected price over the next 10. But - is it worth spending $10k+ on today?

How long generally do these systems last? Does their efficiency start to trail off linearly over time? Exponentially? Can they be serviced and brought back to 100% efficiency? (In relation to their as-new efficiency levels).

On another note, do you think solar panel and battery technology will improve also over the next few years and end up becoming significantly cheaper?

My current 1.9kWh system cost about $8500. For the same money I could get 5x the system today (http://www.dollarsolar.com.au/residenti ... Amd88P8HAQ)

Also, if you are actually using the electricity in the day you can ditch the battery - which is a huge chunk of the cost - and get some quicker return.
I also think panel technology will get better, indeed.

norbs wrote:

pab wrote:Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

This, in bold!

With modern technology you can do that instead of just describing it.

pab wrote:Yeah, you're missing how much electricity prices will increase over those 7.3 years.

And for the refurb point, you can add, swap or change the whole battery configuration as your needs/wants change.

Norbs, are you still with the power buyback as well? like .60c a KW.

wobblysauce wrote:And for the refurb point, you can add, swap or change the whole battery configuration as your needs/wants change.

Norbs, are you still with the power buyback as well? like .60c a KW.

Yep, til years end. My panels clicked over $10,000 earned a couple of months ago.

So for the same money now you could of gotten a better system, but on the other hand.. in that time they have also paid for themselves and then some.. which others will not or very slowly. Think last person I heard getting it was .06c KW before the cut off.

0.06c / kW? Are you sure? Wasn't it 6 cents / kW? I'd not bother with six hundredth of a cent per kW that's for sure
Above you said 6 tenths of a cent, too, so I'm confused.

Shit yeah!

ysu, Yes 0.06c or 6cents, just written like the above for 0.60c for 60cents.

Ok how about this for the (hopefully near) future:
http://futurism.com/new-solar-energy-ha ... -at-night/

ysu wrote:Ok how about this for the (hopefully near) future:
http://futurism.com/new-solar-energy-ha ... -at-night/

Exciting times for sure.

I am desperate for a way to store heat to turn into electricity. Even on a small scale. Even in winter on sunny days you could capture a lot of heat from direct sunlight. Or use that heat to heat the house in winter.

I have often thought about building one of these, but not sure how well it would go.

Go to watch the video and it is already liked :P.. yep thought I seen this guy before.

Thanks to Macca for the link. Interesting idea.


http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/energy ... iffs/84075

http://reneweconomy.com.au/teslas-price ... wer-22265/

Go you good thing.

Yes, I saw this - it is great news and really makes the case stronger. When our extensions start, we aim to include additional panels and get a battery pack sorted. This will make it easier to justify the investment.

norbs wrote:http://reneweconomy.com.au/teslas-price ... wer-22265/

Go you good thing.

I saw that a few days ago, too.

What their calculation says is that you'll about hit even after 10 years, with that specified setup & usage, correct?
I haven't analysed their numbers, just trying to make sense of it.

I should install one, too - but the electricity is still so bloody cheap...

sure it takes 10 years, but the benefit of not having a Bill come in, and no blackouts. be killer