A review after a few weeks playing

ysu · Post by **ysu** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:37 am

Ok, I have to write a little 'review' after a couple of weeks playing it.

First of all: I still maintain the car behaviour / tyre physics is very well done. It feels great, you can catch the car with throttle while it can still spin if you lack the xp/don't watch it, it can slide (and if you slam the brakes in, for example, the howston, you can slide out of the track, so that part is good too).
So all in all, feels good. But to achieve the good driving feeling you need to tweak a number of things in the settings, and maybe in the files too. A lot of seemingly fairly important things are only available via tweaking settings files. At least it has some explanations on most lines...not that all of that is working, but still... :-)

I have to admit it, the game has shortcomings.

First of all, generally it was rushed out. Apart from the obvious left-out things (weather, anyone?) there are a number of thing they could fix before release. Or at least it should be stated it's a beta - as it's always with LFS (I love that approach!). The racecast is not even working right (it's like lfsworld, a statistical site), it's been reset a number of times already, patched, updated...so it wasn't tested out at all I'd say.

Optical
Some say it looks cartoony. A bit, yes. Others say you need to turn all display settings up to max, it'll look good. But for this, you need a 5 grand gaming rig...
The night effect is nice, altho the sun's missing. Sometimes the glare starts behind objects, or in the middle of the concrete(!) which looks plain stupid.
Also worth mentioning, that the time multiplier does not work in every situation (especially in single player season mode) so starting a 20+ lapper season is a dangerous thing in open wheelers (they've no lights). by the way the lights look great!

There are other funny things, the flames on the exhaust (looks a bit stupid, it's a flat image), the glowing brake disc....

Sound
Hm, well, it's not that great. It uses the old method, repeating samples. Easy to mod. Plain. Forget any echo/wind noise/engine damage sound.
The base content has fairly average ones too. The F3 mod makes my head hurt. Imho LFS beats the sh1t out of it.
(I have to admit the howston sounds sexy tho)

Gameplay/hardware
The old 1fps bug is still present, I've experienced it a few times too, even tho I havent' had it since RBR with my old machine...(it's when the game suddenly goes with 1-3 fps then suddenly ok again, seemingly no reason to it, at random parts of the track)

Ah I have to mention you'll need a good machine to run it. The min spec is bullshit just as usual, multiply it with 2 or 3. (I can run fields of 20 on roughly medium settings, no more, A64 3400+/1GB/6600gt) especially the video card matters (for details) it seems; and for the number of AI: the cpu.

The AI is very bad, even with a few tweaks. You need to nudge them out from in front of you (they're madly blocking), and don't try to drive in front of them slower, they'll ram you usually (few exceptions).
This should have been fixed before release.

The damage model...hm...first of all: weak. Second: minimal vertex damage, mostly parts flying off. (The only dent I've seen was to the door, looked funny) And sparks if you switch it on in the settings files. While you can feel the effect of these things in driving (loosing a wing!) ...it's not that lifelike without dents, and somehow turned down.
Ah, but there's a nice thing happended to me the other day: I had heavy damage, went into the pits, and the guys in the pit couldnt' fix it totally! hehe....

On the pits: you dont' have the f9-f12, so reaching the details is a pain (you have to scroll through 8 different screens to find the one) The display is minimal, and doesn't seem to be correct at times, and only minimal settings possible (fuel and probably something else).

Now, one more thing: the grip off-track is too big. I've seen kids without any idea of the racing line putting in very good laps with the howston thanks to the 4wd and the high grip on the sides.

The tyre temp - while matters - doesn't make that much difference in the 4wd. There is no dirt on the tyre, and it's virtually impossible to wear down the rubber. (it takes very-very long time). There's only one tyre compound. Of course no flatspots either.

This is the revolutional game engine.

Now to the multiplayer.

It's good. They say it's revolutionary, but I say it's finally better and stable. The list of games need a tweak to show all servers, otherwise you need to keep refreshing and it'll show different servers every time (?!). The ping in the list is some hoax. It shows a value which has nothing to do with the server, but the people on it, and even that is vastly inaccurate. Get into the server, hit the '2' and it shows something very different usually (at least twice as much). I've had a disco (only one) but it was from an aussie server...interesting.

If the connection is somewhat crap, the effect is very disturbing: the other cars are all over the place, slowing down or accelerating with insane speed you cannot match, totally ruining the race. I'm braking like mad to avoid the disaster, cannot (because it wasn't braking, but the lag) then whooops...going throught the other car (there's a setting somewhere which prevents collisons if the lag is too big) ...so I was braking for no reason, but how am I to know it?

Also: the other cars are usual to see flying or dig into the tarmac, going through walls (!) I've seen a car taking a corner 2m above the ground....

There is a corner cutting watch, and it's nice (gives you a stop/go) but....it's not working in many places, it seems the base tracks were not fully equipped with this.

There are all the flags you need, those not watching the rules got DQ'ed, but it does not help dirty drivers, only very bad wreckers. It also costs money, but it does not matter much, almost everyone is using the babyfactory cheat, so it's sadly not a restaraining power. It takes only a percentage off your money anyway.

by the way: online you can find three kinds of races: F3 (most popular, running the F3 mod) , formula (not that popular), and some 'GT'. the GT is usually the equivalent of howstons fully prepped. maybe a hammer here or there. nothing else.

The population is usually 10 ppl on a couple of server for the GT cars, another 10 on formula, and some 20-25 on F3. There are another 50 odd people playing on locked server (ausorc, aor...)

Amazingly the public server population is not that bad on the GT servers (haven't tried the F3) as it's in LFS, but some are still a bit dirty racers.

Mods
The easy modding is there (they say, I'm not into it). So it may become a great thing.

You can change most of the thing in settings files, which is good because it's there, but bad because most of it should be inside the game in a well-organized manner.

There are two added tracks, those are very nice. A third is out, but it's just the same oval with different look.
There's the F3 mod, but I personally dont' like it that much. The cars are funny to drive, I think the trainer/adv trainer are much closer to reality than those f3's, altho it's a diff. category...the FOX feels better too (altho snappier. everything is snappier in LFS, losing grip much 'harder', and losing it very bad...)

Conclusion

They took the ISI motor one, replaced a number of things, patched a number of others, but the base approach is the same.

But apart from all the negatives I put down here rFactor is great fun, feels good to drive - if the conroller is set up well, aids all of.... It may be hard to achieve in some cases. Seems the defaults are for the plebs who'll drive with a decent amount of aids and stuff on.

IMHO it looks good too, not better than LFS currently, but good.

So in my opinion LFS is still at least on par, if not better, and it'll get even better - hopefully soon. :-)

And LFS alpha has less bugs than rF full...hm...mighty interesting. (the only serious shortcomings of LFS for me is the tyre phisics - especially at low speeds, and the moon gravity.

Exar Kun · Post by **Exar Kun** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:28 pm

Good review.

I agree with most of it. LFS is indeed a more polished product at this time and that's despite it being in Alpha. It's a tricky thing with the amount of options available in rF. It would be nice to see everything can be changed able to be done in-game but LFS does that and I find it a nightmare to find stuff in that options menu. There are a few important things that should be in there though. FOV for one.

I've only found the bad connection problems you stated in rF to be as bad as what happens in LFS (trying to follow someone at BL in an FOX the other night who was warping crazy all over the place - doing spins but then appearing 50m down the road). The problem is that in rF you can't tell if you're going to be joining a laggy server or not. However if someone ultra laggy chooses to join your server then there's not much you can do in either game.

Drove the F3 in rF and the FOX in LFS back to back the other night and I like the FOX better. It is more 'snappy' as you say but has more feel to me. Funny I can't find that feel in the tin tops in LFS - I much prefer the slower cars and GTs in rF.

Comes down to personal preference on the driving side of things at this stage I would say. Go with whichever one feels better to you and as most people here have been playing LFS for sometime I'd guess it's that. I'm hanging for some of the mods in rF though. The V8 mod is gonna 0wn.

Dr. Pain · Post by **Dr. Pain** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:53 pm

I've stopped playing Rfactor for the moment. I gave it a flogging for about a week or 2 but a lack of content has made me go back to GTR. I mainly lap offline so GTR is perfect for me. However as a mod platform the future is so very bright for Rfactor. Yes it needs to still be worked on but ISI have achieved what they set out to do in making a mod platform.

Its a good review and I have to agree with most of the things you said ysu but in a years time I just have a feeling that things will be different for Rfactor. Things will be much better.

ysu · Post by **ysu** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:14 pm

Dr. Pain wrote:... in a years time I just have a feeling that things will be different for Rfactor. Things will be much better.

I certainly hope so. :-)
I'm still playing it, it's a nice one to drive, and I certainly don't hate it. It's great fun, especially on the AOR server, there's some real driving going on (altho I'm always in midfield the best, hehe)
But with all honesty this was what I had to write down about it.

SE1Z · Post by **SE1Z** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

good review YSU.
the comparisons to LFS were always going to be made and its great to hear an unbiased opinion

I will hold off buying rFactor until some good mods start appearing, V8's being the mod im most interested in.
The V8 Mod for GTR was fun, but no good in multiplayer (although i suspect that was a fault of GTR rather than the mod)

Cheers,
Steve

w00dsy · Post by **w00dsy** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:36 pm

LFS sound is better?

Wow i fucking hate the sounds in LFS, it sounds like midi sounds from about 1992 to me. I love the realalistic sounds sampled from real engines. I know the theory is better with LFS, but i've never heard engines that sound like that.

Rots · Post by **Rots** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:49 pm

SE1Z wrote: I will hold off buying rFactor until some good mods start appearing, V8's being the mod im most interested in.
The V8 Mod for GTR was fun, but no good in multiplayer (although i suspect that was a fault of GTR rather than the mod)

Ditto

At least I know now I'm not really missing much at the moment

Exar Kun · Post by **Exar Kun** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:49 pm

w00dsy wrote:LFS sound is better? Wow i fucking hate the sounds in LFS, it sounds like midi sounds from about 1992 to me. I love the realalistic sounds sampled from real engines. I know the theory is better with LFS, but i've never heard engines that sound like that.

Ummm yeah - forgot about that part by the time I came to writing my reply. Jason's right. LFS sounds just suck arse. Except for the wind sound in the open wheelers - that's mad.

Sarsippius · Post by **Sarsippius** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:02 pm

Thanks for that ysu, confirms a lot of the suspicions I've had with rFactor. I've actually downloaded it and the crack but just can't be bothered even loading it atm, when something like the V8 mod is released I'll give it a try and pay for it if it's worth it.
Been visiting the rFactor forum at rsc semi regularly and it's not real easy to get a decent opinion of things without reading a lot of posts. Fanboys are already proclaiming it the best sim ever made and the F3 mod the best mod ever made (despite it being one single car, nothing else as far as i know), then you have the detractors saying it's too easy and arcadish lol.

As for the sounds it's a personal thing, in many ways lfs is so much more real but if the engine tone grates on you then it's all for nothing. You'd think that what is and isn't realistic wouldn't be so subjective

Post by **Cutter** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:28 pm

I've had it for 2 weeks now and agree with all YSU says.
The graphics are cartoony when compared to the clarity of LFS.
The damage is highly inconsistant.
Completely agree re the system spec stuff.
I can play LFS / NASCAR with every graphic bell and whistle on at max res
and uber settings, and can barely run in DX7 with enough detail on offline.
Have to run DX7 800 x 600 with minimum detail for online.

My other thoughts.
The menus suck. The idea of changing series to access different cars is so old.
They're clumsy and badly thought out.

The fact you have to edit settings files to achieve a reasonable level of reality
is dissapointing.

The multiplayer code is questionable at best.
I'm one of the people that has the "go fast" lagg/warp.
I gain 2 -4 secs per lap [depends on track] over anyone else on the server.
Even on low ping ones.
Subsequently I get banned / kicked quite regularly for "cheating" on servers.

The sounds dont convince me.
While LFS ones need work, they respond to the environment in a way I've
never seen as developed as good.

The Rfactor cars are either ugly or boring.
The trainers ok, but the Hammer is just wrong.
F3000 in good, but the FOX beats it for handling / response.

Like many I've really only bought it for the mods.

My final assesment, it seems like a rushed job.

DarrenM · Post by **DarrenM** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:56 pm

Get these sounds for the F3. Far better than the original
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=222486

I don't think it looks cartoony which is an overused complaint about ISI sims in my opinion, but I am pretty disappointed with the track textures. They're all pretty grainy looking.
Hopefully this guy doesn't take too much longer to get his textures out:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=221323

It seems like no developer is going to give us a complete sim. LFS netcode (collision detection) and sound are bad and it's not modable, GTR netcode can't handle a decent grid and has plenty of other bugs that needed fixing.

With rFactor there are a few things that I miss from LFS. Namely, dirty tyres and flatspots. Not having full timing information in replays/monitor and not having telemetry also sucks. The damage system is also pretty lacking.

The rFactor netcode is good but in a way, it's too good. They seem to have fixed the collision problem by not having much effect from collisions at all. Open wheelers banging side to side like they're gokarts is pretty disappointing. It doesn't really feel like open wheeler racing when you can get away with that kind of contact.

Overall I feel rFactor is the best package available for online racing atm, but I agree that it feels like a rush job in some aspects. Hopefully they can build on it. Don't forget that this will be developed further kinda like LFS. It's not a static title like GTR et al.

Dr. Pain · Post by **Dr. Pain** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:39 pm

People seem to be holding off from buying it at this early stage and I can't blame them, but boy I had some cracking races online. The best race I had was on a German server and there was no warping at all and we ran door handle to door handle. F3 is fun too, farking great fun. It badly needs some real life tracks like Spa and Imola in the game though.

Post by **Bauer** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:04 pm

I've stopped playing Rfactor for the moment. I gave it a flogging for about a week or 2 but a lack of content has made me go back to GTR.

interesting comment good Dr.

but boy I had some cracking races online. The best race I had was on a German server and there was no warping at all and we ran door handle to door handle. F3 is fun too, farking great fun. It badly needs some real life tracks like Spa and Imola in the game though.

oh shit look. content. Called multiplayer. When was the last time you came to a forum to tell everyone how great an online race you had? - teasing -

agreed it needs real life tracks. Which, like everyone is saying, will come in time but shit its a lot of fun.

Sound - not as good as GTR but way better for my ears than LFS

petey · Post by **petey** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:05 am

hmmm, That was an awesome review.

But from personal preference i just dont like it .

No. 1:
Ai are assholes

.

No. 2:
Feels alright but when in incar view can't feel the car moving at all, where i love LFS in a big way

.

No. 3:
For me looks crap in my opinion in any graphics setting but starts to run slow when everything is max.

No. 4:
Lack of entertainment when racing, anything that could help get rid of the boredom of flying away of the pack. I mean like a TV replay up on the track somwhere, maybe some fake Radio chatter.

No. 5:
Bloody expensive.

Post by **Bauer** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:48 pm

No. 5:
Bloody expensive.

?? I dont follow you. Care to explain what you mean?

rFactor $54
LFS S2 $60
GTR $80 on release, $50 very quickly

Hazelb · Post by **Hazelb** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:25 pm

PeTeY wrote: No. 2:
Feels alright but when in incar view can't feel the car moving at all, where i love LFS in a big way .

Your kidding arent you? If your refereing to the "feeling" of speed, your kidding arent you?

I like LFS, but it certainly does not have the feel of speed that RF has..

I also agree re the cost...its the cheapest of the 3 main sims around at present..

ysu · Post by **ysu** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:12 pm

PeTeY wrote: No. 4:
Lack of entertainment when racing, anything that could help get rid of the boredom of flying away of the pack. I mean like a TV replay up on the track somwhere, maybe some fake Radio chatter.

If I may join to the previous two, where have you got 'other entertainment' in race driving?
I mean, c'mon be serious. You don't like the game, obviously, that's fine. But you haven't made any valid points here

Post by **Bauer** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:24 pm

ysu wrote:
PeTeY wrote: No. 4:
Lack of entertainment when racing, anything that could help get rid of the boredom of flying away of the pack. I mean like a TV replay up on the track somwhere, maybe some fake Radio chatter.
If I may join to the previous two, where have you got 'other entertainment' in race driving?
I mean, c'mon be serious. You don't like the game, obviously, that's fine. But you haven't made any valid points here

and if I may join ysu on point 4,

flying away from the pack??? its it online, enjoy it. If its offline, raise the AI %. its a percentage not a 3 step deal. raise it above 100% if you are too good.

Post by **norbs** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:54 pm

PeTeY wrote:hmmm, That was an awesome review.

But from personal preference i just dont like it .

No. 1:
Ai are assholes .

No. 2:
Feels alright but when in incar view can't feel the car moving at all, where i love LFS in a big way .

No. 3:
For me looks crap in my opinion in any graphics setting but starts to run slow when everything is max.

No. 4:
Lack of entertainment when racing, anything that could help get rid of the boredom of flying away of the pack. I mean like a TV replay up on the track somwhere, maybe some fake Radio chatter.

No. 5:
Bloody expensive.

Nothing to say about your post, but for the love of all things holy and good, get rid of that thing in your sig!

Did a mate with a Commodore 64 design that for you?

Post by **Bauer** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:02 pm

norbs wrote:
PeTeY wrote:hmmm, That was an awesome review.

But from personal preference i just dont like it .

No. 1:
Ai are assholes .

No. 2:
Feels alright but when in incar view can't feel the car moving at all, where i love LFS in a big way .

No. 3:
For me looks crap in my opinion in any graphics setting but starts to run slow when everything is max.

No. 4:
Lack of entertainment when racing, anything that could help get rid of the boredom of flying away of the pack. I mean like a TV replay up on the track somwhere, maybe some fake Radio chatter.

No. 5:
Bloody expensive.
Nothing to say about your post, but for the love of all things holy and good, get rid of that thing in your sig! Did a mate with a Commodore 64 design that for you?

Norbs 1 - LFSfanboy 0

Jumi2 · Post by **Jumi2** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:01 pm

Well i think for its content its way to expensive.
Prices over here (all at release):
40Ã¢â€šÂ¬ rFactor
45Ã¢â€šÂ¬ GTR
45Ã¢â€šÂ¬ GTLegends
36Ã¢â€šÂ¬ LFS S2

So,its not the most bang for the buck over here.
So far i like it, hope the modders do something with it.
But with these few tracks and cars? Maybe if they convert all the F1C/GTR stuff and polish it up some it will be a nice game.
But well the handling and FF is weird for me, i am used to get more weigth transfer and feeling out of it like in lfs, i just dont have that in rF.

Hazelb · Post by **Hazelb** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:33 pm

rf = lots of mods and long life potentially

LFS =v more cash for the next installment

GTR is buggy online and a resource hog re bandwidth

In my eyes..rf whilst still young is the best value for money

petey · Post by **petey** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:00 pm

Gee i love it.

i know the Sig. is annoying and looks like 2bitpixels

but did it not get your attention? .

Anyway i just made bullS*** points and the expensive one is that i dont like it so its expensive :P .

So go have some coffee and then hit me some more

.

Post by **norbs** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:06 pm

PeTeY wrote: Gee i love it.

i know the Sig. is annoying and looks like 2bitpixels but did it not get your attention? .

Anyway i just made bullS*** points and the expensive one is that i dont like it so its expensive :P .

So go have some coffee and then hit me some more .

mmmmmmmmmmmmm, that coffee was great!

petey · Post by **petey** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:13 pm

ooh, that was harsh... MY POOR BABY... now your askin for it mate. Im gonna have to have some coffee to because you got me intrigued

.